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Am I A Mormon Apostate? - Page 4

I thought the last was you were supposed to pray and ask Heavenly Father about this... what has He told you?

Apostate Mormon I Am

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It is that I don't like the idea of putting his words above the scriptures and teachings of previous prophets, without confirmation.

Well,  like we said before, all this is a matter of Mighty Prayer now.

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Of course, anyone who questions the "infallibility" doctrine seems to be counted with Judas these days.

LOL I don't think so...I personally question a lot of things and so far I don't think nobody count me with Judas.

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And the question isn't whether or not President Hinckley is the truly annointed of the Lord, but with the general church attitude towards him.  It is no longer an attitude of love.  It is almost an attitude of worship, similar to how the Catholics rely on their "saints" (at least the way I see it).

Well you're speaking to 'general' I don't think this is a fair statement because every member have different feelings about the Prophet. I will give you an example, some time ago this sister from the Church got up and she said 'She believes in the Prophet because for her, the Prophet is God' I said to myself...'Oooookayyyyyyyyyyy' : I didn't want to correct her in front of everybody but I did make a comment in Church that the Prophets are men like we are who commit mistakes and sin therefore they cannot be seen as God himself who is perfect. So even though I understand what you mean, I don't think the majority of the LDS members somehow worhsip Pres. Hinckley....I think there is a deep love and respect for his words and they're anxious to hear through him what Heavenly Father wants us to do as a Church body. But yes there are those members who think the Prophet is perfect and like 'God'....but those same people say it out of ignorance not really thinking seriously what they're saying.

Am I A Mormon Apostate? Studies Doctrine Mormon

(Pardon me for stumbling in the middle here....I just want to "delurk" and post this one thing...)

The scripture that says "all is well in Zion" is from 2 Nephi 28:21.  But this is not a warning away from a prophet who will say it, but members deceived by the devil.  

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And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well-and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.  (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 28:21)(emphasis added)

I couldn't find where Prez Hinkley said it any time recently, except for quoting the above passage.

(I will now relurk and continue to watch this thread. Pardon my jumping in.)

Page 4 Apostate Mormon I Am

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(I will now relurk and continue to watch this thread. Pardon my jumping in.)

Please don't lurk so much.  Discussions are better if more people participate.  ;)

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I thought the last was you were supposed to pray and ask Heavenly Father about this... what has He told you?

I haven't gotten a strong answer, either way.  I keep trying.

When I read in Isaiah, especially, I continue to get the strong impression that he was writting about us, the Church, as Israel and Ephraim.  If so, then there is very strong indications that there will be prophets who will lead the church astray, at least the general membership who rely on the arm of flesh.  One of the main messages of Isaiah is that there will be "one mighty and strong" who will come forth in the very last days, at the time of the Assyrian King, and lead the righteous remnant into the Millenium.

NightHawk

Apostate Mormon I Am

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I haven't gotten a strong answer, either way.  I keep trying.

Strong answer? Okay, so you are saying you have not received an answer yet. Why do you think that is?

Am I A Mormon Apostate?

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Again, except for the one verse you pointed out to me, I don't see any scriptural support for the idea that the church won't be led astray.  Instead, I see many, many references to the saints of the last days being led, or leading themselves, into apostacy, with only a tiny remnant of the "elect" remaining with Christ.

For me one scripture is enough.  If not, how many makes it true?   5, 10?  When there are scriptures that conflict, then I need to pay attention to the context within which they exist to determine why the conflict.

Another thought, Isn't it possible that those who are led astray are not led astray by the prophet, but by others (members or not) who offer reasons why what the prophet is teaching is false?  Just a thought.

I am going to read the scripture in 2 Nephi myself and once a reference to the prophet saying "all is well in Zion" is provided I will read that too, so that I can for myself see what it means.

Am I Mormon Apostate - Page 4

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For me one scripture is enough.  If not, how many makes it true?   5, 10?  When there are scriptures that conflict, then I need to pay attention to the context within which they exist to determine why the conflict.

That is the problem.  I don't understand the context of the verse that LDS_Forever quoted to me.  Now I can't find it.

The verse she quoted to me appears to be in conflict with several others that indicate that there will be prophets and apostles and other leaders in Ephraim in the last days who will be leading the saints astray.

As JB noted, I am seeking an answer to this conflict.  This particular post was to reply to your excellent point, and to try to show why I don't automatically accept either side of the question.

NightHawk

Am I Mormon Apostate Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 4

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That is the problem.  I don't understand the context of the verse that LDS_Forever quoted to me.  Now I can't find it.

The scripture I gave you is in Doctrine and Covenants 58:8 and the Lord is talking who those who endure tribulation shall be crowned with glory.

Nighthawlk, to show you what I was talking earlier in this thread that if a Prophet tries to lead us astray God will destroy it...read Ezekiel 14 you can read the whole chapter that is great and talks specifically about Prophets but let me focus on verses 9 and 10:

"And if the prophet be deceived he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and WILL DESTROY HIM FROM THE MIDST of my people Israel.
And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him..."

Two things: One, Prophets can try to lead us astray (false prophets, the Church talks constantly about that) BUT as well said in these scriptures if he does, the Lord himself will destroy him...therefore, what Pres. Hinckley had spoken so far comes from God because if wasnt then we will not have him as the President right now.

In the fourteen fundamentals in following the Prophet by Pres. Benson it says something interesting:

"In a general conference of the Church President N. Eldon Tanner stated:

"The Prophet spoke out clearly on Friday morning, telling us what our responsibilities are. . .

"A man said to me after that, 'You know, there are people in our state who believe in following the Prophet in everything they think is right, but when it is something they think isn't right, and it doesn't appeal to them, then that's different.' He said, 'Then they become their own prophet. They decide what the Lord wants and what the Lord doesn't want.'

"I thought how true, and how serious when we begin to choose which of the covenants, which of the commandments we will keep and follow. When we decide that there are some of them that we will not keep or follow, we are taking the law of the Lord into our own hands and become our own prophets, and believe me, we will be led astray, because we are false prophets to ourselves when we do not to follow the Prophet of God. No, we should never discriminate between these commandments, as to those we should and should not keep." (CR, October 1966, p. 98)

I think this was such a great statement regards on how we see ourselves sometimes....