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Am I A Mormon Apostate? - Page 5

A search on the lds.org web site using the terms "prophets, mouth" comes up with THIS. There are 38 entries in all. This scripture, found in Doctrine and Covenants 58: 8 and which reads

can be easily interpreted to mean the prophecies that have been spoken shall not fail. It doesn't necessarily mean that the prophets would never transgress and lead the people astray. Anyone can fall from grace, no one is exempt. It doesn't matter how many revelations you've had or how much power and authority you have. The Lord is explicit about this as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants. All scripture must harmonize, there can be no contradictions, and the whole body of revealed, canonized scripture must be taken together as an organic whole and analyzed together when arriving to any correct conclusion. So, one scripture is not good enough if there are 5 others which throw additional light on the subject, especially if there appear to be contradictions.

Another way to interpret this passage is that the prophets would not cease to speak. Do we not hear endless words? We receive messages from the leaders of the Lord's church constantly. A third way of interpreting this is to mean that there will always be found prophets upon the Earth, meaning anyone who possesses the spirit of prophecy and revelation. A prophet, in this sense, is anyone who has the gift of the Holy Ghost and who receives personal revelation from that gift. In that case, the whole membership of the church can go to hell in a hand basket and deny the gifts of the Spirit, but as long as there are two righteous members, they will speak the words of the Spirit of prophecy and this verse will be fulfilled. Or you can interpret this as meaning that the prophets will speak, and their words will not cease, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will be speaking the truth. (See the above lds.org search for the lying spirit verses.) Or, you can interpret this to mean the Presidents of the church, that their words will not cease and will all come to pass, whatever they may say.

So, I wouldn't say that this verse is so cut and dry as all that. It is open to interpretation, as is most scripture.

Now, concerning apostacy, and speaking our minds and whatnot, my understanding is that no member is immune to the councils of the church. A bishop's council and a high council can be brought or called for any matter and against any member. If any one of us feels that anyone is leading anybody astray or has sinned in any way, a high council can and should be called. Again, my understanding is that no one is immune, not even President Hinckley. Although we cannot command he who is at our head, if we feel that our leader, any of them, from the local level on up, is not performing his duty according to the scriptures, we can call a high council and the matter must be tried according to the scriptures. Am I not correct in this assessment?

This is the Church of Jesus Christ but it is also the Church of the Latter-day Saints and the law of common consent is in full operation (in theory. Our law of common consent has, for the most part, become a law of traditional hand-raising, but that is the subject of another topic.) So, I think if we see iniquity in the church on any level, instead of complaining about it or apostatizing by going to the enemies of the church and criticizing the Lord's anointed, we ought to bring the matter to the high council and let them get to the heart of it. If they judge unrighteous judgment, they will pay the price. We will have done our duty. The problem the church faces is that nothing is challenged on any level. The apostates do not make use of the councils and the members in general are so stooped in prophet worship and not making waves and in following their leaders blindly that they can't recognize error when they see it, or, if they do see the error, they don't know the proper procedure to correct it, which are the church councils. Such an atmosphere is a breeding ground for infiltration by the evil one's minions.

And I, personally, already believe we have been infiltrated by the wolves in sheep's clothing, clothed in the priesthood and wielding the mantle of authority. The prophets of the last century warned us it could happen to us if we were not vigilant. Instead of being vigilant, we've been apathetic and lethargic, so it goes to reason that we have been infiltrated, as prophesied.

Apostate Mormon I Am

I agree that Councils should be held when anything is questioned AFTER counseling with the Bishop. The procedure in the CHI is that all should meet with him first and then if needs be the matter is taken to the Council. I like the point that members who have problems... tend to take it to apostate groups, that is very true, but at the same time we may have to look at the reason for that. A good example is Nighthawk, one of the reasons he comes here is because he can share thoughts without worrying about his membership being in jeopardy... many of the leaders of today simply do not know the doctrine, and so when something is asked that they do not know they pass it off as the person is going 'apostate'.

Concerning your point about those in authority who are already in the Church... can you elaborate on that? Thanks.

Am I A Mormon Apostate? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Well, how about Donald L. Staheli? He's a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. He's also a member of the Second Quorum of the Seventy, I believe. In my mind I can't fathom bringing those two groups together. One a tool of the Lord, the other a tool of the devil. He is the most blatant sign of infiltration I've ever seen.

Page 5 Apostate Mormon I Am

I have met Staheli, he is also the personal secretary to Pres. Hinckley. In fact, I recognized this because of how much we had to 'go through/communicate' with him when he was in my country. As for that statement you made... totally opinionated... I still do not see how that is a mark of the infiltration of the devil. Have you ever talked to anyone in your ward about that view or written to the Prophet about it?

Apostate Mormon I Am

You are right. This is just opinion. There are only two possibilities that I can think of. 1) The CFR has infiltrated the church and placed one of their men directly next to the prophet, as his executive secretary. I can't think of a more perfect place to place a person, in the exact position to know all the goings and comings of the prophet and church in general. 2) The Lord has infiltrated the CFR and placed this man as President Hinckley's executive secretary so that the prophet is fully aware of everything that is going on in that diabolical organization, the CFR. Take your pick of these two.

Of course, there is also a third possibility: 3) that the CFR is just a harmless organization that has no affilitation whatsoever with the Round Table, or any other secret combination, and that there is no conflict between the CFR and the Lord's church.

These are all possibilities, which are important to know when coming to any conclusion about anything. But what are the probabilities of these possibilities? After reviewing the evidence, possibility number 3 has a very low probability of being true. I cannot imagine the Lord sending one of His servant's into the midst of the Gadianton Robbers and telling him to join with them to get information as to what they are doing. I'm not going to say that this was never done, just that I don't consider it very probable. So, possibility number 2 isn't very probable. The only really probable possibility is that Satan has sent one of his own to infiltrate the church: possibility number 1.

We know that the church, not the governments of the world or any other organization, is the only real danger to the devil's empire. It is entirely probable that he has attempted and is attempting and will attempt to infiltrate the church. We were warned of this very thing happening by J. Reuben Clark and Ezra Taft Benson. They said that we would be infiltrated and that the infiltrators would wear the mantle of the holy priesthood, unless we were vigilant in keeping the devil's spies and saboteurs out.

I don't know Staheli. Perhaps he is just a very ignorant man who was asked to join the CFR and had no clue as to what they did or what their purpose is. But I find this hard to believe because the CFR is not composed of ignorant people. It is composed of the brightest and best traitorous American minds out there.

There is no need. It doesn't matter to me if the church has been infiltrated or not. Personally, from what I see, it has. I am aware of the prophecies. The Lord has said that it would begin on His house. The church is scheduled to be cleaned. The Lord is the pinnacle of efficiency. A church that isn't dirty won't be cleaned out. The dirt (corruption) is necessary for the prophesied cleaning. If anything, seeing the corruption makes my testimony stronger in the words of the prophets, because I see the prophecies being fulfilled.

I am certain that there will be a lot of members who will shudder and shake at what is coming, and who's testimonies will suddenly fail them, because they will see cherished leaders, that they believed were on the Lord's side, weeded out. Not the occasional person here and there, but on a massive scale and there will be great confusion in the church. These people will leave in droves.

This is the reason to make sure that we are securely grounded in the scriptures. It doesn't matter to me if President Hinckley himself apostatizes, my testimony is not based upon him being a prophet, or he continuing to be a prophet, so the church is still true and on I go. But for many members of the church, when the tribulation comes, and I believe it will decend upon us soon, if we no longer have a First Presidency or a Twelve Apostles, or quorums of the seventy, etc., if calamity falls and we must rely upon our own light and testimony and knowledge of the gospel, the vast majority will depart. A remnant, strong and valiant will remain and the Lord's "pure people" that He has always spoken of, will carry the kingdom to victory.

So, I don't have "issues" with anything I see. It's a pity that it is all being fulfilled just as the prophets have predicted, and it's a pity because we could have avoided all the unnecessary punishments, but them's the brakes, I guess. I just accept it and go on with my tesimony of Jesus Christ. Let everyone else fall by the side, if they so choose. It doesn't and won't detract me. I don't depend upon anyone else for my testimony, since it was the Holy Ghost that gave it to me, not any mortal person.

Am I A Mormon Apostate?

When posting these things, please make some mention of it being your opinion so that readers do not believe that this is standard doctrine that you are sharing/teaching. We do have new members that visit here. See the Read Me thread on this board --> Read Me First

Am I Mormon Apostate - Page 5

I'm not very familiar with this Council on Foreign Relations, what is that about Buggeyes and what's the conection between that Council and the Devil?.
Another question: why this group will want to get infiltrated into the Church or Pres. Hinckley's business?.
Third and last question: I'm sure the Church makes a deep research on the people that work so close to Pres. Hinckley if they thought was something 'evil' I don't think they will be so dumb to leave the person there, don't you think?.

Am I Mormon Apostate Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

The Council on Foreign Relations is considered, by many, to be one of the premier organizations that will form the NWO (New World Order) also known as the modern Gadiantons. In other words, it is (in their opinion) the most visible of the Last Days secret combinations.

If this is so, which it may be, then they would be opposed to the welfare of the Church, thus would be involved in "spying" operations on the Church.

I don't take a stand one way or another on this issue.