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Mormons & Death Penalty - Yea or Ney? - Page 2

I'm impressed in the way you presented this particular scripture and I agree with you in each one of your analysis. I don't know really know what I would think about Nephi if I lived at that time. Maybe I would condemn him because all the 'evidence' and if he says that he was commanded by God, I will say that he's nuts lol. It's so true what you said!, I think that is easy for us to talk about Nephi and even defend him but the things would be so different if we were there at that time...

Ney Yea Penalty Death and Mormons

[quote]  I find it interesting that if he had been captured, he would have held to his story that the 'quiet voice' of the Lord told him to do this act. The spirit directed him. The authorities would have placed him under psychiatric care and the newspapers would have printed another story of a young 'parentally misguided' man who listened to voices in his head and who was obviously psychotic or bedeviled with multiple personalities.[/quote]
So true. Sometimes we tend to think... why didn't they just listen to God's chosen, but if we were there we might have thought it hard to believe too.

[quote]Did Nephi deserve the death penalty for his brutal act of murder and flight from the scene of the crime? If you were a juror, how would you vote if Nephi was the defendant in a capital murder case like this was?[/quote]
Like everything it depends on what 'law' we are judging him by. Now if I am juror and a persistent Rabbi and knew only of the Mosaic law and Nephi, the acclaimed son of a flase prophet, then surely he would die. If I had a knowledge of what he were doing were of God's own bidding then...

Mormons & Death Penalty - Yea or Ney? Studies Doctrine Mormon

[quote]One thing we have to remember is that the law is formulated through the people. Therefore, even though the Church does not take an 'official' postion on the death penalty does not mean we should not.

Why should we take a position? Well, like everything else in life and especially when it is concerning laws... would you want something inacted as a law YOU have to abide by without your personal input? I believe the answer would be "no".  So this thread can be now lean towards this question:

Do you personally agree or disagree with the death penalty

Here are somethings to think about;

1. In the days of the Old Testament and Book of Mormon does sanction the use of death for certain crimes.
2. Muslim states today still acknowledge death for less than murder such as in the case of adultery.
3. In the case of war crimes where people have killed millions of men, women and children for no reason there is the death penalty.
4. States and countries with an active death penalty have recorded a significant decrease of crime.
5. There is the risk of putting to death the wrong person because of a flaw or error in the justice system.
6. Death in itself affects not only the person but relatives, such as the children of the person being put to death.
7. Would society want to pay the upkeep of a person who has raped and killed several women in the most inhumane manner? Should society pay for this person's upkeep?


From CNN:

Good Morning from Bill Hemmer:  Illinois Governor George Ryan has commuted the
death sentences of 156 death row inmates and now both sides of the capital
punishment debate are scrambling for the upper hand.  The Governor, whose
final day in office is today, will be with us live to explain his decision.
And meet a woman whose sister was raped and murdered nine year ago today.  The
accused killer is no longer sentenced to die.  How are families reacting?[/quote]

The Answer of course, for me, is yes and no... In some instances, Murder for instance, the Death penalty may be waranted... In extreme cases ie. Hanibal Lecter, the Dahmers, and their like... This would definately relieve society of the cost and the concern regarding their possible escape... In other cases where murder is accidental or in a fit of rage... anything but M1 then no, the death penalty may not be the answer...

However, often forgottenm, along with the death penalty, we should have corporal punishment... Public Punishment... ie sex offenders should be castrated, repeat offenders executed. Drug Dealers should be put in stocks so the parents of the affected children can throw things at them... Thieves should be publicly flogged... The threat of a public beating is often enough to cause would be petty criminals to think twice before doing the crime... and more serious criminals are rarely made because they are stopped while still "small time".

From a scriptural viewpoint, the Old Testament and the Law agree, from the New Testament ond the Book of Mormon...

Matt. 5:17 - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

3 Ne. 12:17 - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil;"

Just my thoughts...

Page 2 Ney Yea Penalty Death and Mormons

[quote]However, often forgottenm, along with the death penalty, we should have corporal punishment... Public Punishment... ie sex offenders should be castrated, repeat offenders executed. Drug Dealers should be put in stocks so the parents of the affected children can throw things at them... Thieves should be publicly flogged... The threat of a public beating is often enough to cause would be petty criminals to think twice before doing the crime... and more serious criminals are rarely made because they are stopped while still "small time". [/quote]

Well, I don't agree with you in this one. (Note: We have to disagree in some point huh? ). I think this will create even more hate and will not solve the problem itself, not to mention that this kind of 'corporal punishment ' is torture! and we are condemning someone for doing something really wrong and we solve the problem by doing something even worst?. Not to mention is not something Christ would want us to do....Whedn Nephi killed Laban, he just went and killed him even though he didn't want to...he didn't went and start cutting his fingers and then his arms just to see him suffer or put him in the middle of a group of people to be humiliated or beat to death like in the old times. If death penalty must take place, it should without torture also because even though we are killing a criminal, we cannot carry ourselves with hate. A human life is lost, even if wasn't a good one, human life is sacred.

Ney Yea Penalty Death and Mormons

[quote]

Well, I don't agree with you in this one. (Note: We have to disagree in some point huh? ). I think this will create even more hate and will not solve the problem itself, not to mention that this kind of 'corporal punishment ' is torture! and we are condemning someone for doing something really wrong and we solve the problem by doing something even worst?. Not to mention is not something Christ would want us to do....Whedn Nephi killed Laban, he just went and killed him even though he didn't want to...he didn't went and start cutting his fingers and then his arms just to see him suffer or put him in the middle of a group of people to be humiliated or beat to death like in the old times. If death penalty must take place, it should without torture also because even though we are killing a criminal, we cannot carry ourselves with hate. A human life is lost, even if wasn't a good one, human life is sacred.[/quote]

I knew someone would disagree with this... it is why I posted it...

While the case you make is a very good one, in the Bible times the prefered method to kill a criminal was public stoning, to have a group of people throw rocks at you until dead... Not out of hate for person as much as hate for the acts of the person... I can say honestly, that I harbor great anger and hate toward sin, while I strive to truly love the individual, I still hate and shun the sin...

(You know I would rather find myself in gentle disagreement with you than in agreement with some people I know... lol)

Mormons & Death Penalty - Yea or Ney?

I don't like the idea of tax dollars paying for room and board of criminals for years at a time also a lot of prisons are over crowded and if they have done somthing bad enough to get the death penallty they would have to get special attention so nothing else would happen.

Mormons & Death Penalty Yea Ney - Page 2

I find it interesting that the discussion frequently turns to a distinction between the Old and New Testaments.

I would love to see where the New Testament condemns the death penalty.  The NT teaches love for fellow man as the highest ideal, but it doesn't suggest that we place our families or our society in danger.

On the other hand, the Book of Mormon clearly teaches that protection of self, family, and society is a high ideal.  The death penalty was clearly practiced in Book of Mormon times.

Although Jesus taught us to 'turn the other cheek', this was in reference to insults, not harm.  The D&C teaches that we are justified in protecting ourselves.

The death penalty, under appropriate oversight, within a civilized society, is a way of protecting ourselves, our families, our society, and our liberty.

Even the early Apostles and Prophets supported the death penalty (I am NOT talking about the 'blood atonement' issue).

Personally, I think that predators who cause serious harm to society, whether they walk on two legs or four, should be destroyed before they cause further harm.  This includes people who commit cold-blooded murder, especially those who rape, torture, and murder multiple times.

Remember, God ordained the death penalty, in Old Testament times.  Who do you think is creating the situations that argue against it?

NightHawk

Mormons & Death Penalty Yea Ney Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

I believe the Bible actually endorses the death penalty. My problem with it is that there are times when innocent people are found guitly. If you have put them to death, you can't bring them back to life once you find out you were mistaken. We have had people convicted of violent crimes vindicated years sometimes decades later and released. In Boston, just recently, a man was released from prison after having been convicted of murder. I believe he served 14 years before he was released. What if he had been given the death penalty?

As far as expense goes, studies show in the US than those given a sentence of death end up costing us more that those given life without the possibility of parole. This is because of all of the automatic appeals and other legal expenses. In countries where you kill a person within weeks or months of the sentence this would not be true, but the chance of putting an innocent person to death is much greater.

I do not believe the death penalty actually serves as a deterrent. I believe there is also evidence to show this is not true. The funny thing about statistics is they are so easily manipulated that many times we see statistics used to justify a position when if we really knew how the statistic was derived we would dismiss it as not really being valid.

Anyway, my biggest objection to the death penalty other than the putting to death of an innocent person (which I think would be horrible and most likely has happened), is the punishment that is meted out to the convicted murderer's family. No one can bring back the person who was murdered and their family will suffer terribly, but is it right to then punish the convicted murderers family in the same manner? The too are innocent. If my son was convicted of murder and put to death, I would suffer terribly. I am innocent but I would be punished just as greatly as he for his actions.

Just my thoughts and ramblings.

Edited: tenaheff on 24th Nov, 2003 - 8:55pm