Add Reply
Add Comment As A Guest
Close Topic OptionsHorses in the Book of Mormon?
Horses Book Mormon - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 20th Aug, 2013 - 2:43am
Play Text RPG
- Location:
- International Discussions
- ➢
- ➢ Discuss
- ➢ General Religious Beliefs
- ➢ Mormon Doctrine Studies
Posts: 4 - Views: 1200
Horses in the Book of Mormon?
It is widely believed that horses were brought to the Americas via the European invasions. However, the Book of Mormon speaks about there being horses?
Could it be that Joseph's translation of an ancient word came out as 'horses' when it was meant as another four legged creature?
Some believe that deer were used as horses in that period.
Scholars in Argentina believed that horses did exist in South America (Pampas) before Columbus, but no one takes their findings seriously.
What are your thoughts on this subject?
Horses in the Book of Mormon? (Hover)
Sponsored Links:
Mormon Book the Horses
Many scholars seems to believe that yes the horses existed at the time of the Book of Mormon. Â There is proof of that! I found a very interesting link with information and also pictures.
Source 1
Related to this same issue is the existence of elephants in the Book of Mormon time. Here is a link for info on that:
Source 2
Post Date: 6th Nov, 2003 - 12:16am / Post ID: #
Horses in the Book of Mormon? Studies Doctrine Mormon
You might be interest in this article by Yuri Kuchinsky.
There may be many members of the Church who see the Book of Mormon as an article of faith. I know I did. Today, I can state with some certainty that I believe the Book of Mormon - becuase it's a fact of history. It may be true that faith is a form of knowledge, but I think that faith with knowledge is sweeter.
Post Date: 20th Aug, 2013 - 2:43am / Post ID: #
Mormon Book the Horses
Those who disagree with the LDS point of view will point out that although it is known that horses and elephants existed on the American continent before Columbus there have not been any credible finds of either of these animals that date later that 12,000 B.C. Which clearly puts them outside the Book of Mormon window. Here is an interesting article where DNA tests were done on soil samples were taken on permafrost in Alaska. The group made this observation"¦
QUOTE "hard remains of animals are rarely preserved, difficult to find, and laborious to accurately date because of physical degradation, the scientists said in a statement today.
So MacPhee and colleagues decided to tackle the problem by dating the creatures through dirt. Frozen sediments from the far north of Siberia and Canada can preserve small fragments of animal and plant DNA exceptionally well, even in the complete absence of any visible organic remains, such as bone or wood."
So MacPhee and colleagues decided to tackle the problem by dating the creatures through dirt. Frozen sediments from the far north of Siberia and Canada can preserve small fragments of animal and plant DNA exceptionally well, even in the complete absence of any visible organic remains, such as bone or wood."
Book of Mormon lands have never been located were permafrost could preserve remains. In fact the areas most accepted as Book of Mormon lands are areas with tropical rain forests which do the worst job of preserving physical or any organic remains. If a small soil sample from Alaska can move the geological record from 12,000 B.C. To 7,600 B.C. It does not stretch credibility at all to say that the existence of these animals is very possible during Book of Mormon times. I downloaded the article so it wouldn't be lost when it was taken down from the internet.
QUOTE (LiveScience Staff)"Mammoths Were Alive More Recently Than Thought
Date: 15 December 2009 Time: 06:59 AM ET
Woolly mammoths were driven to extinction by climate change and human impacts.
CREDIT: Mauricio Anton
Woolly mammoths and other large beasts in North America may not have gone extinct as long ago as previously thought.
The new view - that pockets of beasts survived to as recently as 7,600 years ago, rather than the previous end times mark of 12,000 years ago - is supported by DNA evidence found in a few pinches of dirt.
After plucking ancient DNA from frozen soil in central Alaska, researchers uncovered "Genetic fossils" Of both mammoths and horses locked in permafrost samples dated to between 10,500 and 7,600 years ago.
"We don't know how long it takes to pinch out a species," Said Ross MacPhee, Curator of Mammalogy at the American Museum of Natural History. "Extinctions often seem dramatic and sudden in fossil records, but our study provides an idea of what an extinction event might look like in real time, with imperiled species surviving in smaller and smaller numbers until eventually disappearing completely."
At the end of the Pleistocene, the geological epoch roughly spanning 2.5 million years ago to 12,000 years ago, many of the world's megafauna - giant sloths, saber-toothed cats, dire wolves, stag-moose, and mammoths - vanished from the geological record. Some large species such as Equus caballus, the species from which the domestic horse derives, became extinct in North America but persisted in small populations elsewhere.
Scientists have blamed the extinctions on everything from human overhunting to a comet impact to the introduction of novel infectious diseases.
The swiftness of the extinctions, however, is not suggested directly by the fossils themselves but is inferred from radiocarbon dating of bones and teeth discovered on the surface or buried in the ground, the researchers involved in the new study point out. Current "Macrofossil" Evidence places the last-known mammoths and wild horses between 15,000 and 13,000 years ago.
But hard remains of animals are rarely preserved, difficult to find, and laborious to accurately date because of physical degradation, the scientists said in a statement today.
So MacPhee and colleagues decided to tackle the problem by dating the creatures through dirt. Frozen sediments from the far north of Siberia and Canada can preserve small fragments of animal and plant DNA exceptionally well, even in the complete absence of any visible organic remains, such as bone or wood.
"In principle, you can take a pinch of dirt collected under favorable circumstances and uncover an amazing amount of forensic evidence regarding what species were on the landscape at the time," Said co-researcher Eske Willerslev, director of the Centre for GeoGenetics at the University of Copenhagen.
The team collected soil cores from undisturbed Alaskan permafrost. Two independent methods (Radiocarbon and optically stimulated luminescence) were used to date plant remains and individual mineral grains found in the same layers as the DNA.
"With these two techniques, we can be confident that the deposits from which the DNA was recovered haven't been contaminated since these lost giants last passed this way," Said Richard Roberts of the University of Wollongong in Australia. "It's a genetic graveyard, frozen in time."
The core samples revealed the local Alaskan fauna at the end of the last Ice Age. The oldest sediments, dated to about 11,000 years ago, contain remnant DNA of Arctic hare, bison, and moose; all three animals were also found in higher, more recent layers, as would be expected. But one core, deposited between 10,500 and 7,600 years ago, confirmed the presence of both mammoth and horse DNA.
The team also developed a statistical model to show that mammoth and horse populations would have dwindled to a few hundred individuals by 8,000 years ago.
"At this point, mammoths and horses were barely holding on. We may actually be working with the DNA of some of the last members of these species in North America," Said team member Duane Froese of the University of Alberta in Canada.
The findings are detailed in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences"
Date: 15 December 2009 Time: 06:59 AM ET
Woolly mammoths were driven to extinction by climate change and human impacts.
CREDIT: Mauricio Anton
Woolly mammoths and other large beasts in North America may not have gone extinct as long ago as previously thought.
The new view - that pockets of beasts survived to as recently as 7,600 years ago, rather than the previous end times mark of 12,000 years ago - is supported by DNA evidence found in a few pinches of dirt.
After plucking ancient DNA from frozen soil in central Alaska, researchers uncovered "Genetic fossils" Of both mammoths and horses locked in permafrost samples dated to between 10,500 and 7,600 years ago.
"We don't know how long it takes to pinch out a species," Said Ross MacPhee, Curator of Mammalogy at the American Museum of Natural History. "Extinctions often seem dramatic and sudden in fossil records, but our study provides an idea of what an extinction event might look like in real time, with imperiled species surviving in smaller and smaller numbers until eventually disappearing completely."
At the end of the Pleistocene, the geological epoch roughly spanning 2.5 million years ago to 12,000 years ago, many of the world's megafauna - giant sloths, saber-toothed cats, dire wolves, stag-moose, and mammoths - vanished from the geological record. Some large species such as Equus caballus, the species from which the domestic horse derives, became extinct in North America but persisted in small populations elsewhere.
Scientists have blamed the extinctions on everything from human overhunting to a comet impact to the introduction of novel infectious diseases.
The swiftness of the extinctions, however, is not suggested directly by the fossils themselves but is inferred from radiocarbon dating of bones and teeth discovered on the surface or buried in the ground, the researchers involved in the new study point out. Current "Macrofossil" Evidence places the last-known mammoths and wild horses between 15,000 and 13,000 years ago.
But hard remains of animals are rarely preserved, difficult to find, and laborious to accurately date because of physical degradation, the scientists said in a statement today.
So MacPhee and colleagues decided to tackle the problem by dating the creatures through dirt. Frozen sediments from the far north of Siberia and Canada can preserve small fragments of animal and plant DNA exceptionally well, even in the complete absence of any visible organic remains, such as bone or wood.
"In principle, you can take a pinch of dirt collected under favorable circumstances and uncover an amazing amount of forensic evidence regarding what species were on the landscape at the time," Said co-researcher Eske Willerslev, director of the Centre for GeoGenetics at the University of Copenhagen.
The team collected soil cores from undisturbed Alaskan permafrost. Two independent methods (Radiocarbon and optically stimulated luminescence) were used to date plant remains and individual mineral grains found in the same layers as the DNA.
"With these two techniques, we can be confident that the deposits from which the DNA was recovered haven't been contaminated since these lost giants last passed this way," Said Richard Roberts of the University of Wollongong in Australia. "It's a genetic graveyard, frozen in time."
The core samples revealed the local Alaskan fauna at the end of the last Ice Age. The oldest sediments, dated to about 11,000 years ago, contain remnant DNA of Arctic hare, bison, and moose; all three animals were also found in higher, more recent layers, as would be expected. But one core, deposited between 10,500 and 7,600 years ago, confirmed the presence of both mammoth and horse DNA.
The team also developed a statistical model to show that mammoth and horse populations would have dwindled to a few hundred individuals by 8,000 years ago.
"At this point, mammoths and horses were barely holding on. We may actually be working with the DNA of some of the last members of these species in North America," Said team member Duane Froese of the University of Alberta in Canada.
The findings are detailed in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences"
Message Edited...Persephone: Please use the Quote Tags as instructed here. When you do not use these tags source material that is not your own may appear to be yours when it is not. See our Constructive Posting Policy.
TOPIC: Horses in the Book of Mormon?