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Lucifer Tells the Truth...

Lucifer Tells 1000 Truths in Order to Add One Lie

That is why he is effective. An example of this is...

'There is a God and He is powerful, He sent His Son to die for your sins, you will be forgiven for all no matter what you do'.

Did you detect the lie?

'You will be forgiven for all no matter what you do' is not correct since the scriptures state that the Atonement works on the principle of repentence and obedience to the Commandments of God and not based on absolute grace to the point where you can do anything and be forgiven.

Here is another common lie...

'You are doing good, so long as you do not try to hurt anyone or kill anyone'

Although this statement is true, it introduces the sin of omission. On my mission I met a lot of people who did not want to take up the challenge of doing what God says, 'Pay Tithes', 'Fast', etc. simply because it was 'too much'. They felt that they were 'good enough' if they simply did not hurt anyone or murder. Of course they defined for themselves what 'good' means. Even Christ questioned why the lawyer refered to Him as 'Good Master'. Christ proclaimed that none is good save God.

Are there other lies in society today that you see accepted as truth?

Truth Tells Lucifer

How about the one about what happens after our physical death that is so prevalent - Do the SDAs have it correct? or We LDS? who believe we return to the prescence of our Heavenly Father from whence we came? or Do all other Christians have it right? I feel the SDA have it right although I hear over and over again from my fellow LDS brothers and sisters and higher Church authorities who seem to interpret these passages in some other way. Anyone else stuggling with this?:

Here's a strong compelling case of Seventh Day Adventists:

In spite of all the rampant errors, even in so-called Christianity, regarding this subject, the fact remains that we have limitless scriptural proof that when we die, we (or our soul) does not go straight to heaven. Jesus did not ascend immediately to heaven, neither do we. John 20:17.

Also, if we go straight to heaven when we die, what is the purpose of that glorious resurrection morning that the redeemed throughout the ages have looked
forward to?  In Revelation 22:12 Jesus makes very plain when the saints will receive their reward: "And, behold I come quickly;and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
Obviously, we are rewarded when Jesus returns to resurrect the righteous and take them and the living saints to heaven. Question: If people were so wicked before the Flood that God destroyed them, can we believe that He took all these souls to heaven? If they weren't fit to live upon this earth, how could they possibly qualify for immediate translation to heaven?

The lie Satan told Eve in the garden of Eden six thousand years ago, is the very same lie pastors and teachers tell us today. "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4-5. God said if we disobey, we are going to die. Satan says it doesn't make any difference what we do: When we die, we go immediately
to heaven. God says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:20. If God says it, I believe it.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 says: "For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. And their love, and their hatred, and their envy is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done
under the sun." Verse 10 says, "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave whither thou goest." Nothing here about going to heaven.

Peter said, "David is not ascended into the heavens. . . ." Acts 2:34. David is in his grave awaiting the resurrection morning. There are a hundred more texts to verify that we do not go to heaven when we die, but I hope this will help you avoid Satan’s deception about this. But why is it so important that we understand what happens to the body or soul when we die? Who cares? What does it matter?

Supposing a gloriously beautiful being appeared at a revival and told the people she was the Virgin Mary, and that in the interest of peace and unity, everyone should go back to the Catholic church, which is something contrary to your belief. She tells you how wonderful it is in heaven, how God loves everyone and wants them to live in complete harmony. What’s wrong with this picture?

First of all, the apostle Paul tells us: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8.

Secondly, Jesus' mother Mary is in her grave, awaiting resurrection morning just like the saints of all time past. She is not in heaven any more than David is.

Thirdly, if "an angel from heaven" tells you to do something you know is wrong, that angel is not from heaven.

Remember how Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, as we read in the eleventh chapter of John. You know the story. Now, I have to ask you: If Lazarus was up in heaven, reunited with his parents and friends, and in the presence of God and all the holy angels, didn't Jesus do him a terrible injustice in bringing him back to live in this wicked world where he would soon see his best friend Jesus tortured and murdered on an awful cross? Why didn't Jesus take that opportunity to tell Lazarus's sisters Mary and Martha not to worry, that Lazarus had "gone to a better place", that "he is happy in heaven", etc., etc., as the priests and false pastors tell people today when they lose a loved one? Jesus did not tell Lazarus's family and friends that, because that is Satan's lie. That's what Satan wants people to believe. Going back to Galatians 1:8 for a moment; we are told that there is a curse upon anyone who preaches anything other than the truth in this matter or any other matter. That's a pretty sobering thought, isn't it?

Some people say that the children who were murdered at Waco were actually better off, because they are in heaven now. How shocking!!! If that's the truth, why not drop bombs on everyone, have wholesale slaughter, and send all these people off to heaven where they live in eternal bliss? Can you now see why this belief is so dangerous? Muslims believe that their young sons killed in battle go immediately to Paradise, which is the same lie "Christians" believe. So if this is true, Adolph Hitler, who killed himself, is up in heaven. If we go immediately to heaven when we die, why wear seatbelts? Why are children put in safety seats in cars? Why do we have doctors and nurses in emergency rooms, who do everything they can to save lives? Why do they feel such a sense of loss when all their attempts to save a life fail? Why don't they celebrate, knowing their failure has sent another person up to heaven? Do you not see the total irrationality in this belief? Not to mention how unscriptural it is. That is why we need to study the Bible individually so that we know the truth as it is written, not what we are told by anyone else - "even an angel from heaven". Angels from heaven don't tell lies. Jesus said that Satan is the father of all lies (John 8:44), and he has certainly honed this one to perfection, because he can take advantage of people's belief and impersonate the dead and appear to grieving family and friends. "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
2 Corinthians 11:8. "For there shall arise false Christ's, and false prophets, and shall show great wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt. 24:24.

A mother passed away, her son and 11-year- old
grandson were in a plane crash. Her grandson lost his life; her son barely survived. Now, if my mother observed this tragedy from heaven, what was her reaction? Did she say, "Praise the Lord! Here comes my grandson!"? And was she sorry her son survived the crash, and couldn't come? Is not this belief the
epitome of absurdity? How can anyone believe such utter nonsense? Can you imagine observing such a tragedy from heaven, totally helpless to intervene or do anything about it? Sounds more like a hell than a heaven to me. Again, if we are already in heaven, what is the purpose of that grand and glorious resurrection morning, which has been the hope of the world for generations?

Study the Bible for yourself. Do not believe anything anyone tells you that is contrary to what the scriptures teach.

What say the Scriptures concerning these things? David declares that man is not conscious in death. "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."[1 PS. 146:4.] Solomon bears the same testimony:
"The living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything." "Their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou
goest."[2 ECCL. 9:5, 6, 10.]
"In death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." 4 PS. 6:5; 115:17.
"As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more." Job 7:9,10
"But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:10 - 12

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall be live" John 11:25

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:52-54.

Lucifer Tells the Truth... Studies Doctrine Mormon

Your thoughts are very interesting Nephiproject. But first of all let me started by saying that in  Deseret News they published an article time ago regarding a nationwide poll on religious attituded and beliefs. Of the Latter-day Saints polled from January 2000 to June 2001, only 59 percent believed in the
reality of Satan. What about the  other 41 percent?. It seems like some members are a bit confusing on this subject or they're being deceived by Satan like it says in this scripture
"And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is NO hell; and he saith unto them: I am NO devil, for there is NONE-and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains,  from whence there is no deliverance. [2 Nephi 28:22]
Elder Marion G. Romney said:
"We Latter-day Saints need not be, and we must not be, deceived by the sophistries of men concerning the reality of Satan. There is a personal devil, and we had better believe it. He and a countless host of followers, seen and unseen, are exercising a controlling influence upon men and their affairs in our world today."
I would definetly say Nephiproject that we have the right doctrine about who is Satan, how we deceive us and also what happened after we die. If you make a deep research on the subject you will find so much information about this on LDS books and the scriptures itself. Some months, some Jevohah Witnesses shared some of the same scriptures you shared about dead people, saying that they cannot think, talk or communicate with us until the day of the Resurrection because they're in the grave and they don't go to Heaven. Surprisingly, you're saying that SDA believe in the same thing. I was kind of upset when they shared those scriptures to me since I had lost my uncle at the same time. I said this because when he died I felt so close to him and I had personal revelation that he was allright and AWARE of my pain.
Let me clarify that the LDS Church doctrine DON'T BELIEVE that after we die we go straight to Heaven. I mentioned this because you said that we as LDS believe we will return to Heavenly Father after we die, even though that's correct it's not something that will occurr immediately after we die. Brigham Young said:
"After the spirit leaves the body, it remains without a tabernacle in the spirit world until the Lord, by his law that he has ordained, brings to pass the resurrection of the dead [see D&C 93:33-34]. When the angel who holds the keys of the resurrection shall sound his trumpet, then the peculiar fundamental particles that organized our bodies here, if we do honor to them, though they be deposited in the depths of the sea, and though one particle is in the north, another in the south, another in the east, and another in the west, will be brought together again in the twinkling of an eye, and our spirits will take possession of them. We shall then be
prepared to dwell with the Father and the Son, and we never can be prepared to dwell with them until then. Spirits, when they leave their bodies, DO NOT DWELL with the Father and the Son, but live in the Spirit world, where there are places prepared for them.
Those who do honor to their tabernacles, and love and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, must put off this mortality, or they cannot put on immortality. This body must be changed, else it cannot be prepared to dwell in the glory of the Father".
Well, I know this thread is not about that maybe if you're interested in the subject you can open a new thread and we can discuss about it .
Going back to the original subject, I posted in this same message one of the lies of Lucifer when it says that there is no God, no hell nor Devil.

Truth Tells Lucifer

You and I share the same belief on this one for sure. I was hoping you'd pick this up and you did. We will return to our Heavenly Father after we are resurrected - not immediately after we die. It seems though that many LDS and others believe that they will go immediately after death. We share the same idea as the SDAs.  And yes, Satan really exists.

Truth Tells Lucifer

Yes, not ALL members know the doctrine of this one. If you're in a church class and the teacher ask where do we go after we die? I'm sure that 90% will say 'To Heaven!'  People tend to think that paradise and heaven are the same thing. Some of them they don't even mention the Spirit World and if they do they think that the Spirit World is in another planet when we know it's right here on Earth.

Lucifer Tells the Truth...

Just to make sure we are on the same doctrinal track here...

When we die, we die only to body, immediately our spirit is made aware of its exsistence outside of the body. Where we go, is actually right here... the Spirit World is here, here on earth. So to say we go to some place would be a mistake.

This is the beauty of the plan... the earth is the creation, the testing ground, the burning, the millenial preparation and where does it say God's Kingom will come? Right here. The earth will become celestial in nature after the 1000 years and Lucifer's final stand. We aren't going anywhere, unless you are of course are on the other side of the line of Celestial glory.

Now what the Spirit World is like, and what are our conditions of mind, etc are is another thread, but I will say, we carry all our likes and dislikes there, we have in memory all that we have done, but at last we are in a state of doing the same as would here, afterall we have not left

[offtopic]There is a true story of a dream a Boise Idaho Stake President had about the Spirit World. If I can find it, I will bring it here.[/offtopic]

Lucifer Tells Truth...

Now what the Spirit World is like, and what are our conditions of mind, etc are is another thread, but I will say, we carry all our likes and dislikes there, we have in memory all that we have done, but at last we are in a state of doing the same as would here, afterall we have not left

After studying the scriptures, I've concluded that   the Spirit World is a kind of resting place where we enjoy a deep restful dreamless sleep unaware of anything and unable to act - a kind of memory-tape where all of our existence is stored until we are awakened by the great shout of the angels - not an active place where we are aware and can move about etc - until the resurrection when we will be reunited with our bodies and come awake. All this notwithstanding the near-death experiences of so many who claim to have pierced the veil and had been counseled and sent back through the veil with more purpose to their lives.  Their experiences seem to tell us that there is indeed an active existence on the other side of the veil.  I'm ok with either but scripturally have difficulty with  the 'immediate active life on the other side of the veil'.  Perhaps someone can clue me in to some references about either the 'Spirit world' (not a description of it but it's actual existence as a place where we will become active immediately after death). Thanks.

Lucifer Tells Truth... Mormon Doctrine Studies

This is a common story circulated among members of the Church that are intereseted in the Spirit World. I have done a lot of research on the afterlife save experiencing it myself and the scriptures do point to 'active' participation on the next side. We must remember that our term, 'scriptures' is not limited to Bible, Book of Mormom, etc, but to all revealed word through the Prophet. I have loads of referrences to this, but will save to share this only;

A Vision Given to Heber Q. Hale President of the Boise Stake

"A heavenly manifestation given to Heber Q. Hale, President of the Boise Stake of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as related by him at the Genealogical Conference held in the Auditorium of the Bishops' Building, Salt Lake City, Utah, October, 1920.  (Requested by the Presidency of the Church in 1920.)

It is with a very humble and grateful spirit that I attempt to relate on this occasion, by request, a personal experience which is very sacred to me. I must of necessity be brief. Furthermore, there were certain things made known to me which I don't feel at liberty to relate here. Let me say by way of preface that between the hours of 12 and 7:30 in the night of January 20, 1920, while alone in a room at the home of W.F. Raween in Carey, Idaho, the glorious manifestation was vouchsafed to me.

I was not conscious of anything that transpired during the hours mentioned, except what I experienced in this manifestation. I did not turn over in bed, nor was I disturbed by any sound, which indeed is unusual for me. Whether it be called a dream, an apparition, a vision or a pilgrimage of my spirit into the world of sprits, I know not. I care not. I know that I actually saw and experienced the things related in this heavenly manifestation, and they are as real to me as any experience of my life. For me, at least, this is sufficient.

Of all the doctrines and practices of the Church, the principle of vicarious work for the dead has been the most difficult for me to comprehend and wholeheartedly accept. I consider this vision is the Lord's answer to the prayer of my soul on this and certain other questions.

I passed but a short distance from my body through a film into the world of spirits. This was my first experience after going to sleep. I seemed to realize that I had passed through the change called death and I so referred to it in my conversation with the immortal beings with whom I immediately came into contact. I readily observed their displeasure at our use of the word death and the fear which we attach to it. They use there another word in referring to the transition from mortality to immortality, which word I don't recall and I can only approach its meaning and the impression which was left upon my mind, by calling it 'the New Birth."

My first visual impression was the nearness of the world of sprits to the world of mortality. The vastness of this heavenly sphere was bewildering to the eyes of the spirit-novice. Many enjoyed unrestricted vision, and unimpeded action, while many others were visibly restricted as to both vision and action. The vegetation and landscape were beautiful beyond description; not all green as here, but gold with varying shades of pink, orange, and lavender as the rainbow. A sweet calmness pervaded everything. The people I met there I did not think of as spirits, but as men and women, self-thinking and self-acting individuals, going about important business in a most orderly manner. There was perfect order there and everybody had something to do and seemed to be about their business.

That the inhabitants of the spirit world are classified according to their lives of purity, and their subservience to the Father's will, was subsequently made apparent. Particularly was it observed that the wicked and unrepentant are confined to a certain district by themselves, the confines of which are as definitely determined and impassable as the line marking the division of the physical from the spiritual world. A mere film, but impassable until the person himself was changed. The world of spirit is the temporary abode of all sprits pending the resurrection from the dead and the judgment. There was much activity within the different spheres, and appointed ministers of salvation were seen coming from the higher to the lower spheres in pursuit of their missionary appointments.

I had a very pronounced desire to meet certain of my kinsfolk and friends, but I was at once impressed with the fact that I had entered a tremendously great and extensive world, even greater than our earth and more abundantly inhabited. I could be in only one place at a time, could do only one thing at a time, could look only in one direction at a time, and accordingly it would require many, many years to search out and converse with all those I had known and those whom I desired to meet unless they were especially summoned to receive men.

All men and women were appointed to special and regular service under a well organized plan of action, directed principally toward preaching the gospel to the unconverted, teaching those who seek knowledge and establishing family relationships and gathering genealogies for the use and benefit of mortal survivors of their respective families, that the work of baptism and the sealing ordinances may be vicariously performed for the departed in the temples of God upon the earth. The authorized representatives of families in the world of sprits have access to our temple records and are kept fully advised of the work done therein, but the vicarious work done here does not become automatically effective.

The recipients must first believe, repent and accept baptism and confirmation; then certain consummating ordinances are performed effectualizing these saving principles in the lives of those regenerated beings. And so the great work is going on-they are doing a work there which we cannot do here, and we a work here which they cannot do there, for the salvation of all God's children who will be saved.

I was surprised to find there no babies in arms. I met the infant son of Orson W. Rawlings, my first counselor. I immediately recognized him as the baby who died a few years ago, and yet he seemed to have the intelligence and, in certain respect, the appearance of an adult, and was engaged in matters pertaining to his family and its genealogy. My mind was quite contented upon the point that mothers will again receive into their arms their children who died in infancy and will be fully satisfied, but the fact remains that entrance into the world of spirits is not an inhibition of growth but the greatest opportunity of development. Babies are adult spirits in infant bodies.

I presently beheld a mighty multitude of men, the largest I had ever seen gathered in one place, who I immediately recognized as soldiers, the millions who had been slaughtered and rushed so savagely into the world of spirits during the great world war [WWI]. Among them moved, calmly and majestically, a great general in supreme command. As I drew nearer, I received the kingly smile and generous welcome of a great loving man, General Richard W. Young. Then came the positive conviction to my soul, that of all the men living or dead, there is not one who is so perfectly fitted for the great mission unto which he had been called. He commands immediately the attention and respect of all the soldiers. He is at once a great general and a great High Priest of God. No earthly field of labor to which he could have been assigned, could compare with it in importance and extent. I passed from this scene to return later when I found General Young had this vast army of men completely organized with officers over successive divisions, and all were seated, and he was preaching the gospel in great earnestness to them.

As I passed forward, I soon met my beloved mother. She greeted me most affectionately and expressed surprise at seeing me there, and reminded me that I had not completed my allotted mission on earth. She seemed to be going somewhere and was in a hurry and, accordingly, took her leave with saying that she would see me soon again.

I moved forward covering an appreciable distance and consuming considerable time, viewing the wonderful sights of landscape, parks, trees and flowers and meeting people, some of whom I knew, but many thousands of whom I did not recognize as acquaintances. I presently approached a small group of men, standing in a path lined with spacious stretches of flowers, grasses, and shrubbery, all of a golden hue, marking the approach of a beautiful building. The group was engaged in earnest conversation. One of their number parted from the rest and came walking down the path. I at once recognized my esteemed President Joseph F. Smith. He embraced me as a father would his son and after a few words of greeting, quickly remarked: "You have not come to stay," which remark I understood more as a declaration than an interrogation. For the first time I became fully conscious of my uncompleted mission on earth and, as much as I would have liked to remain, I at once asked President Smith if I might return. "You have expressed a righteous desire" he replied, "and I shall take the matter up with the authorities and let you know later."

We then returned and he led me toward the little group of men from whom he had just separated. I immediately recognized President Brigham Young and the Prophet Joseph Smith. I was surprised to find the former a shorter and heavier built man than I had pictured him in my mind to be. On the other hand I found the latter to be taller than I had expected to find him. Both they and President Smith were possessed of a calm and holy majesty which was at once kind and kingly. We then retraced our steps and President Smith took his leave, saying he would see me again.

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