Related Information to Atheists Not To Be Feared!

Atheists Not To Be Feared! - Page 5

Matija, that is my opinion and you are free to question it if you wish (see my above message about communication / agreement) that is how discussion works - you state your view and I state mine in a clear, concise friendly manner. If you look at my posts within this thread I am making the argument that atheists cannot give the answer to where things 'begin' because their ideas come only from discovered (things known to man through research) sources, if you wish to tell me the beginning of things from your perspective then we can build on that.

Agreed, however you were saying from your experience that most atheist are tolerable and I am just saying that from my experience they are not. In fact we keep a collection of such rants by atheists who have violated our terms of service within the Community with their less that acceptable messages and insults. This is what I find is the main difference - atheist have nearly no bounds and so they think no laws, even in a Community apply to them, again from experience. Now please note, this does not refer to agnostics as they are not atheists, but some people tend to mix the two.

UPDATE: I saw you edit while I was replying. If the Atheist is offended by that message then he needs to read the post about being offended located here:
https://www.bordeglobal.com/foruminv/index....&st=#entry49843

Feared To Atheists

Yes, I consider myself agnostic, but if I weren't , I would be an atheist. Mathematician Goedel showed that in every complex logical system there are truths that can't be proven and falacities that can't be disapproved. It is my belief that that is the case with the existence of God. So I consider the matter irrelevant. I know that's something you won't be able to accept.

As for the beginning, the Big Bang, of course.

UPDATE: I'm not saying I'm offended by it, just that someone might be. And perhaps it isn't a very good example, since I don't believe anyone would seriously think those are atheist principles.

Edited: Matija on 1st Jul, 2005 - 3:00pm

Atheists Not To Be Feared! Beliefs Religious General

Actually I believe in that too, much to your surprise I am sure, but here is the difference... laws are based on certain things governing it so that it is 'law'. In other words a tree is only a tree because biological laws says that the way the atoms, cells and chemicals are formed make it a tree, but then the question can be asked, 'why?' Why doesn't the atoms do something different, why do they bind a certain way, why not another way? They you may say, 'natural laws', then I will say again, 'who started the law'? If I were to place an 'alien substance' into the tree and then the tree morphed into a cow you would probably say, 'that goes against natural law', but it only goes against what is known natural law, and not the law itself. Do you understand my point?

And where did the big bang come from? How did it get there to 'happen' in the first place? The interesting thing about the theories of men is that they are based on the most recent theories / evidences. A simple example can be had in the Columbus era as discussed earlier in this thread.

Offtopic but, I know you are a new member and you may not have experienced before the way we handle discussion here, and it is not my object to 'pick' on you, but unlike other Communities all statements made here are subject to review / discussion or even debate, hence by making your reply I am merely standing on the points you felt were humorous.

Page 5 Feared To Atheists

You believe it is irrelevant whether the God exists? (it was that part that I thought you'd find unacceptable)

Wrong, it was us humans, who in the dawn of time empirically decided what glob of matter we'd call a tree. Later, when knowledge and science developed, we decided to describe and classify it, learn what it is made of and how it works. And our findings we call natural laws.

If that happened, if somehow inexplicably a tree morphed into a cow, I'd say we got our laws wrong, and must look further. It's always the theory that must adapt to fact, not the other way around.

You asked where matter began, IIRC, and I find phisical theories explaining that it all comes from the Big Bang convincing enough to adopt them. I honestly don't remember what they say of how or why the big bang started. An older universe collapsing into itself? One thing I don't find entirely credible is an intervention of God - but while that can't be disapproved, I find it as valid a theory as any other.

What is wrong with that? No one said theories based on the very limited and imperfect perception and knowledge of nature by men, are correct. In fact, every case where they're proven wrong only deepens our knowledge and understanding, once we find out what was wrong about them.

Oh, but I don't feel 'picked on'. I understand you percieve those matters much more seriously than me, and you must excuse me if I find them amusing. Let me assure you I respect other people's beliefs even when diametrally different from mine. And I don't mind discussing this at all. I don't expect we'll reach any conclusions, as I said, but, I'm sorry, for me just the discussion is sor of fun.

Feared To Atheists

Maybe this is a language barrier problem, but read again what I quoted and posted.

You need to add to that... 'In my opinion...'

Again.. read what I said, there is a difference in known laws.

Of course, that is the typical stance of a non-believer, but it is also an example of how believers can also find humorous how you try to explain everything in the universe with such little knowledge. Personally, I find it sad really. One of the greatest scientists of all, Einstein, even realized that there had to be a supreme being to keep this all in motion, I am sure you do not consider him humorous - or do you?

What is wrong with it is that most do not leave room for greater knowledge. People like Columbus did not fit with the rest just because they were bent on known theories.

Offtopic but, When discussing in off topic please use the offtopic tags.

Atheists Not To Be Feared!

All oppinions I express are my own, or adopted by me as my own.

And what I'm saying is that known laws are only valid as long as they're not shown wrong by facts.

I don't doubt humour works both ways - in fact, I'm glad it does.

That's your privilige

But I do. His best know picture, showing his tongue to the photographer, isn't that humorous? And there were other things he did or said that I find amusing. I'd be interested in knowing on what you base your claim that he realised there must be a supreme being. I know he said that the God doesn't gamble, but he didn't mean that literally, he wanted to say there are no random factors involved, but quantum physics proved him wrong.

I disagree, it's natural sciences, that, unlike religion, leave all their options open, and constantly seek greater knowledge. None of the known natural laws says it's absolutely right, but just that it's the best that humans have come up with so far.

Offtopic but, Sorry, I'll try to mend my ways in the future

Atheists To Feared! - Page 5

I think you are either mixing or perceiving what I am saying in the wrong way or lastly being cynical. This thread is actually not to prove religion or my personal theory... notice the title 'Atheists Not To Be Feared!' and the opening comments of the original author. He posted that for a reason. I am expressing perceptions from the other side on the reasons for it. My main focus is again... atheists rely on known theories and most seem to be enveloped emotionally in the disregard for law or greater knowledge.

With regards to Einstein - notice I did not use the word 'God', I said Supreme Being. Einstein just could not explain certain things, just like you cannot, just as man cannot with the same big bang theory. If I ask you why or how, you will come up with another theory, but in the end it is all just pure speculation based on known research. At least in my case I have a reason and it cannot be disproved, but that is another topic. To help you understand what I am saying read this:
https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html

Offtopic but, Stating... 'In my opinion' is part of constructive posting within this Community regardless of any preassumption to it (see 'What is a Good Message in FAQ Board).

Atheists To Feared! General Religious Beliefs - Page 5

I am often cynical, that's in my nature, but I tried not to be in this discussion. As I said at the start, there is a problem in communicating our ideas, not only because we see things from a different perspective, but from a different starting point. We live in different universes, so to speak.

Of course atheists rely on known theories (how could they rely on unknown ones?), but my point is that those theories aren't dogmatic, like many religious facts, but open to evolution and change to achieve deeper understanding. And it is exactly because of that openness to evolution of ideas that atheists should be less feared than religious people.

And I must say that I find your opinion that atheists are more prone to disregard law rather ridiculous. As for what you call greater knowledge, I strongly suspect the term would mean something else to an atheist, so perhaps you should find a more suitable one, to avoid misunderstanding.