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Global Warming: Natural Or Man-made? - Page 58

With Global warming being more and more prevalent we will see more things like Harvey hitting places hard. I think the stronger Hurricanes and stronger storms across the world is nature working to correct itself. We already have AI and it is getting better month by month. Medical science is a whole other issue.

Man-made Natural Warming Global

KN yes I like that film, it was called The Happening. Also had Zooey Deschanel, better known currently as The New Girl, and John Leguizamo, who I like in a lot of the films he has been in (Especially as Sid in Ice Age), very talented actor.

I do think we are poisoning the planet in many ways, such as the deforestation, polluted water ways and in air gases, such as CFC, but I don't think we are responsible for global warming. That I believe has to do with our position in relation to the sun and to the balance of climate at the earths core. We have seen over the millennia of our planet that there has been several ice ages and hot ages, some have produced catastrophic worldwide climatic events, others have been more localized.

If you look at the comparison photo taken from space covering the last 20 years, the actual amount of glacial loss compared to growth overall has been in favor of growth overall. It is just the cycles of the planet, just like we see the yearly seasons in our immediate local lives, so too does the planet have cycles & seasons, but these happen over centuries and not months.

At the root cause of it all, we really need to tackle our reliance on fossil fuels and move to cleaner "Free" energies if we have any hope of cleaning up our planet and preventing a power blackout. Also tackling waste management and improving our levels of recycling will help to reduce our impact & carbon footprints.

Sadly with Trumps move to pull out of the Paris agreement on climate change and the lack of interest the US, Russian, Indian & Chinese governments have on this issue is our biggest hurdle. As it doesn't make them money, it in fact costs huge sums of money in the short term, but makes far more long term, they are not interested as nearly all countries in the world have a very narrow view when it comes to anything that is going to take longer to implement than their current term of government, which in most cases is 4-5 years. This I am sure you will agree is not a reasonable amount of time to implement such a fundamental change to the way a country produces and employs it's energy & waste goods.

Global Warming: Natural Or Man-made? History & Civil Business Politics

What changes when you warm the Antarctic Ocean just 1 degree? Lots. After warming a natural seabed in the Antarctic Ocean by just 1° or 2° Celsius, researchers observed massive impacts on a marine assemblage, as growth rates nearly doubled. The findings of what the researchers call the 'most realistic ocean warming experiment to date' show that the effects of future warming may far exceed expectations. Source 2d.

Page 58 Man-made Natural Warming Global

Glarion I have to disagree with you on the glacial issues. The north pole sea ice is getting less and less each year. Glaciers in the mountains of north America and even Greenland has been reduced a lot. Thus the more warming.
I agree that yes the earth has gone through a lot of heating and cooling over the years and this usually takes a few centuries to see it play itself out. I think that while we are in a warming period that man has set the pace of that warming up quicker against the nature cycle of nature.
Now the fact that our President pulling out of the Paris accord was a good things in my book. Why should we stay in an agreement that we were the only ones paying into with other countries ignoring the agreement and not doing anything to lessen the introduction of greenhouse gasses into our atmosphere? China actually increases the amount of gasses they released after the Paris agreement. It was just not in our best interest to be in it anymore.

Man-made Natural Warming Global

OK KN will have to disagree on one point you raised and to clarify my point on the other.

As whole, the planet's glacial mass has increased. It has certainly shrunk in some locations, but has grown significantly in others. Is this due to global warming & climate change? Who knows as we have only had reliable photography and data in the past 20-30 years, which is no time at all to have a real idea of how much these things have changed. Whilst I wholeheartedly agree we as a race create far too much pollution, I don't know if we are solely responsible for creating a warmer atmosphere. I have followed this story fairly closely over the last several years and I have yet to see conclusive evidence from either side of the argument one way or another.

Now as far as the Paris agreement goes it is sadly misinformation that has been fed by the Trump statements and his administration. If my memory is correct on these figures published around June/July of this year, the US pledged the highest amount to the fund, of around $3bn. It has actually paid in $1bn, all before Mr Trump entered the Whitehouse, in fact, $500mil was contributed by Obama 3 days before he left office! As far as other countries contributing, Japan put in something like $750mil and the UK around $550mil. Other countries who have pledged include France ($1bn), Germany ($1bn) & Sweden. China is not contributing to this fund as it is providing significant funding into another fund that is also tackling climate change and greenhouse gases.

Per head the pledges from 3 of the nations in the Paris agreement looked something like this if memory serves: UK £15 per person, US £7 per person and Sweden £60 per person (The highest of any country in the program). As of June/July this year 190 countries had committed to the deal in an aim to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions. In total around 40 countries contributed a total of around $10bn to the fund, which way below the $100bn target set for 2020.

By pulling out of the agreement, and as the biggest member and contributor thus far, Mr Trump has sent a sad message that he is not willing to work with others in the agreement to improve the state of greenhouse gases globally. This can only be a bad thing as their inclusion in the program lent a lot of weight to it. I mean the agreement isn't dependent on any one country to achieve the goals set out, but have one of the biggest players on the world market opt out of the whole program is worrying to say the least. Contributions to the program are completely voluntary, so simply throwing the rattle out of the pram has not helped anything and was in no way necessary.

Many industry leaders in the US in fact composed an open letter to the Trump administration clearly stating how beneficial the agreement was to the US, it's economy and jobs. But sadly it was dismissed as "Misguided". Seems that even prominent business leaders are disregarded when it comes to negotiating what is best or not for the country, and the world as a whole.

I just don't see how pulling out of an agreement that 190 countries signed up to, is a good way to sell yourself and your country as being on board with the real worldwide issues of the day. But as we have seen thus far, the Trump administration has sent a very clear message, that I quoted in another thread, "Lets make America great again"... And sod the rest of you! At least that is how it sounds, seems and feels since the new government took power.

I just want an inclusive America, not an exclusive one. I am a realist at heart, with a mind that likes to dream, but accepts that those dreams are fantasies mostly. That being said, I don't see how the "World gets better" if it's leader says "I'm looking after number one and the rest of you can fend for yourselves."?

It is one of the reasons I was so shocked and disappointed that we voted to Brexit in this country last year. I may yet be proved wrong, but the pain & suffering that will be caused over the next 10+ years will be heavy.

Edited: Glarion on 1st Sep, 2017 - 3:06pm

Global Warming: Natural Or Man-made?

I would not mind seeing your photos of the growing glacier ice as I have been watching it for well over a decade. The sea ice around Antarctica and over the Arctic has been shrinking to the point that many are worried about sea level rises. We have seen less glaciers in North America, Greenland, Iceland, and in Russia. To see open seas close to the north pole when a decade back there was no where near this is a concern. Yes not all of this is man made as the earth has gone through times of global warming and global cooling over and over. That is how we had three ice ages. This is how ancient man was able to have the exact coast line of Antarctica on maps before we were able to find it via sonar and radar. IS man all to blame? NO but he is making it happen quicker and it will last longer in my opinion.
As far as the Paris agreement I will have to do more reading about it but you may be correct on it.

Global Warming Natural Man-made - Page 58

KN/Glarion,

You both make excellent points. Let me jump in here for a few minutes if I may.

First, the glacier loss in North America has been going on to some degree since the last Ice Age. Granted, it has escalated lately, but one would expect it to escalate thousands of years after the last Ice Age receded.

Second, I've read the same studies regarding the planet's glacial mass increasing. That is actually a huge find and puts some of the alarmists most terrifying predictions in doubt. That said, we still need to find out what is happening to our home. But we need to go in with a healthy dose of skepticism. Right now it seems to me most entities are paying scientists to prove this… so it is in their interest to do just that. We should be paying them to study this and either prove or disprove it.

Third, I agree this is at least partially a cyclical thing happening on the Earth. We are so vain in our supposed power that we think we, humans, are more powerful than nature. That is a dangerous and erroneous assumption. When discussing this some people say it's the weather and it changes. Those are the total non-believers on the right. Then the total believers on the left jump in and scoff, saying it's not the weather, it's the climate. As if out climate never changes.

Well, from someone more in the center I'd like to say this, climate changes too, although it happens over time. There have been ice ages and mini ice ages, warming trends and true heat trends in the past. Some of them were due to volcanic activity, some to outside influences, and some we don't understand.

When I was in Junior High and High School there were those who were saying that pollution was creating a new ice age. It was definitely happening and they pointed to all of these 'facts' to prove it. Well, amazingly it didn't happen. What we need to do is study what's going on and not blindly believe.

Global Warming Natural Man-made Politics Business Civil & History - Page 58

Sadly I can't post the full link here but this is the address of the NASA press release:

Forbes. Com
/sites/jamestaylor/2015/05/19/updated-nasa-data-polar-ice-not-receding-after-all/#7dd839082892

There are also links in the article to the data NASA released. Can't find the pictures as, if memory serves, they were on a BBC news article on the TV & a documentary produced by the BBC called something like Are We Really In A Global Meltdown? .

EDIT
Found the pictures:

Doctorbulldog.wordpress. Com/2008/07/24/gore-spews-out-more-hot-air-predicts-polare-ice-caps-will-melt-within-a-few-years/

Doctorbulldog.files.wordpress. Com/2008/07/deetmp19271.png

Igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/testimage.2.sh?first=20140409.jpg&second=20150409.jpg

.

Edited: Glarion on 1st Sep, 2017 - 3:57pm