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Can The Prophet Do This?

Everybody that knows me they know me by two things: I like to 'act' and express myself a lot and also I have a great sense of imagination, I always like to ask questions like 'what would you do if....'

Now, think about this scenario:

The Prophet goes to a ward for the first time. He mets several of the brethren there and when he meets this particular brother, he felt something strange about him. He then get a revelation from Heavenly Father stating that this brother had committ a very serious crime and that he needs to be excommunicated. Now, there are NOT witnesses of any kind, the person do not confess any crime and there is NO evidence to support his excommunication but the revelation from God to the Prophet.

Have the Prophet the authority to excommunicate or make excommunicate this person? Now, in the revelation Heavenly Father specifically told him that this person needs to be excommunicated, is not a suggestion, is a commandment.

What are your thoughts?

This Prophet Can

The Prophet could do nothing but his duty as an Elder in the Church and refer the situation to local leadership, and since it was a revelation then he would likely be directly involved.
Although, he may not be because his calling is over the whole Church, and such matters would be likely left to the other leadership totally, maybe though with checking up on the situation.

The Church is built upon "common consent", so as to PREVENT such "possible" abuses of power such as this COULD be.

Plus, I don't think the Prophet would receive a revelation that the person needed to be "excommunicated", the Prophet COULD however recieve revelation that this person has commited some serious sin that needed repentance of and as I said it would likely go from there.
That is of course he was a true prophet, and was obedient to the spirit of his calling.

I think another possibility as well that he might go into meeting with his Apostles, and/or into meeting with the local leadership, and bring his revelation before the body of stewards, and then they must agree "unanimously" wether the brother should be excommunicated.
That is actually the process that occurs already.
Of course, before a final decision was made, there would likely be a private investigation of some sort, they would of course interview the brother a few times for a chance for him to admit wether he is guilty or not.

The bretheren would then have to follow the Spirit wether to leave the person alone, or to trust the Prophet AND if the Spirit tells EACH of them that confirms the Prophet is correct that this person has done something.

Of course, I'm speculating possibility's. I suspect though in the end, if there was no confession, no evidence, etc. then NO MATTER if the Spirit reveals that the person is guilty and/or that he should be excommunicated, he probably would not be.
However, if there is likely some possible "danger" to the Saints, then maybe the person would be excommunicated of course if the Spirit dictated so to each Elder as a body.

I suspect as well that such things "may" have occured in the past, and especially in the early days of the Church it may not have been "as" orderly or just. But, I believe the leadership was usually so geared.

Anyway, just throughing some thoughts out there that first come to mind.

Can The Prophet Do This? Studies Doctrine Mormon

This is an interesting question. My first instinct is to say of course he has the authority to do this. He is the prophet. If I think further and having read lee's posting as well, I have some other thoughts.

The Church is set up so that local leaders handle such things. I don't know that this is mandated though. I think what would happen in such a case is the prophet would tell the local leaders what the Lord had indicated to him and they would agree that it needed to be done and it would be done, period. I believe if the prophet knew he had received a revelation from God telling him to excommunicate this member, and that was the revelation, specifically, that he needed to be excommunicated, then it wouldn't matter what the normal procedure is, the prophet would do has he was told by God.

I don't think it likely that Heavenly Father or the Savior would say directly that excommunication was necessary, but, more likely, that this person had committed a grave sin for which repentance was necessary. A Church Court might then decide upon excommunication.

That is what I think would happen, but the question asked was ,could the prophet do it, and I think the answer is most definately a yes.

Edited: tenaheff on 12th Dec, 2003 - 3:04pm

This Prophet Can

leeuniverse wrote:

Tenaheff wrote:

I think you all agreed in that point, but of course, I used my imagination on the example I gave.
Now Tena, you said a Church court might then decide excommunication but if the person does not confess, there is no evidence whatsoever or witnesses of any kind...can the Church excommunicated this person with the testimony of the Prophet only that he received a revelation concerning this brother?.

That's what I think too if there is no evidence, or witnesses or confession, how the person can be excommunicated? but by the other hand, we are talking about a revelation from God to the Prophet.

This Prophet Can

Exactly! If the prophet is told by Heavenly Father to do it, and he knows that is what he is being told, then he would do it. Period. There is plenty of evidence in my opinion. The evidence is that Heavenly Father said it happened. He cannot lie. So, it must be true.

Can The Prophet Do This?

My personal opinion is this... if Moses had declared it through witnesses why would the Lord stray from His pattern? If we examine the scriptures you will always see that these kinds of situations were 'proven' rather that just told. An example of this is Nephi telling the men to go to a certain home to ask questions of a murderer.

Can Prophet This

JB, I agree with you that it wouldn't likely happen this way because the Lord has established his pattern and way of doing things. Yet, the question is what if?

Can Prophet This Mormon Doctrine Studies

That's the trouble with what if questions, the 'what if' has to be rational otherwise I could say things like, 'What if I was able to fly', 'What if Joseph appeared to me and gave me the 116 pages'. I firmly believe that this 'what if' could play out like this...

1. The Prophet gets the revelation
2. He goes to the local leadership and tells them what happened
3. The bishop interviews the accused where after hearing the story is so amazed, he confesses
4. Everything is basically routine from there. Now if he does not confess (which is unlikely) then the facts provided in the revelation can be used as part of the evidence; for instance where to go and get the evidence, etc like Nephi did.