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European Union - Good Or Bad? - Page 3

Hi folks.

In my country (England) we dont have a written constitution, that means a government can do whatever the hell it likes. We are just lucky that it hasnt been abused yet like Hitler did in Germany.

By signing up to the EU and its Constitution it gives government a limit on what it can actually do, this is very important and it is the right thing to join up to it. Also the EU is commited to healthy democracy, so the number of MEP's (Memeber of European Parliament) will rise making it more democratic than it is now. And the EURO economy is growing and is standing up to the dollar. This is a good thing for Europeans. Our businesses can compete properly and our standards of living rise. We no longer are under the thumb of American businesses.

The EU will make Europe a more peaceful place as proper discussion between countrys will now happen. This guarantess there wont be another European war. Thats why im voting for the party in the UK that is fully commited to signing that constitution (The Liberal Democrats).

Bad Good Union European

I find it very interesting that you choose "libertarian" as being your political outlook, but then are a proponent of the EU. Under the EU, there are already all sorts of infringements on British liberties and sovereignity.

I don't think that the British government can do anything it likes, without some very serious degradations to the present system first. However, the EU constitution is so large and complex, how do you know what is in it, and what it means to the UK? By signing up for it, you submit yourselves to the tender mercies of France and Germany, the two worst agressors of the last four or five centuries in Europe. With the establishment of the EU consitution, Europe will finally be united with Germany having just about the largest control over the situation.

Now, for your reading pleasure, I have an entry from a blog, The Belmont Club talking about how the French people are now about to reject the EU constitution. It seems the French aren't too happy with the idea that people in other countries in the EU might actually provide competition in the service sector to the incredibly pampered, not-so-competent French workers. I guess that the Germans didn't like the idea much either. They appear to want the EU primarily as a way to control how other countries work, so that they can control prices better in their own countries, and deny other countries the opportunity to import and export in their best interests. That is why lamb is so expensive in Britain these days. It used to be that you could purchase New Zealand lamb for very low prices. Under the EU, (actually under the EEC), this was forbidden. France wanted to be the only country to sell lamb to Britain, but they didn't want to compete in the market. The EU is a great way to do this.

Anyway, here is the particular article from the Belmont Club. Enjoy the reading.
https://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2005/04/fa...start-from.html

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Before closing this post, I decided to see if there was anything interesting on the Road to Euro Serfdom blog. Here is an interesting little tidbit:
https://eu-serf.blogspot.com/2005/04/euro-n...ikes-again.html
It seems the EU is out to make sure nobody listens to music too loud, so they have required a volume cap on any iPods sold in Europe (including Britain). So, if you buy an iPod, but can't hear the thing very well, don't curse Apple. Curse the nanny state your government has chosen to become part of.

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Ah, here is another little tidbit from the same site:
https://eu-serf.blogspot.com/2005/04/clear-blue-water.html

I particularly like this quote:

I am just curious Mark. What do you think of this analysis? Is it correct?

European Union - Good Or Bad? History & Civil Business Politics

Mark,

I am also English and do not consider myself a European (at least anymore than an Egyptian considers themselves African, or a Brazilian American).

As the EU is in violation of our own liberties, Constitution and Common Law it too is not valid and so membership is only a perceived thing.

You are right to say that the British Government does whatever it likes, and it has done many bad things - latest statistics published almost 400 pieces of legislation infringing upon our liberties since the present Government took power. However, this is not the fault of the British Constitution which is actually in my view one of the greatest that has ever been constructed outside of the US.

The EU Constitution bears no resemblance to either the British or US Constitution though as it is founded on a very illiberal and anti-libertarian philosophy of law called Civil Law.

For example:

Source: Freedom in Jeopardy: The Case Against the EU and Supranationalism:
https://www.freedom-central.net/euandbritain.html

Edited: dubhdara on 17th Apr, 2005 - 1:37pm

Page 3 Bad Good Union European

Here is a great article about conditions in Germany. Since Germany is one of the driving forces of the European Union, and the main economic model, this is particularly pertinent to the topic of the EU.

https://dailydemarche.blogspot.com/2005/05/...or-germany.html

Berlin has 20% unemployment, and is bankrupt. German unions refer to the US (especially the military) as warmongers, yet scream at the thought that the US is planning on greatly reducing our military presence there, as that is going to reduce the amount of money available to the socialist welfare state.

Kind of interesting, isn't it? One of the leading welfare states in the world has been able to support itself only through the taxpayers of the country it loves to hate!

I think that this shows what the EU has to look forward to, as the socialist states inevitably drown in their utopias of inefficient workers, abused industries, and overtaxed people. I wonder where they will get the money to keep going.

Bad Good Union European

Well, some more analysis of the ever-growing wonder known as the European Union.
https://www.nicedoggie.net/archives/2005/05...vile_capita.php
Out, Vile Capitalist Vultures!

This is from the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler. I find it to be a very concise, well thought out analysis of current German political philosophy, as presented by one Günter Grass (Nobel Prize winner). The Rottweiler takes many of Herr Grass' statements and shows how bankrupt the socialist model really is, and how, 60 years after the fall of National Socialism, Germany still apparently embraces the basic economic concepts of Naziism (National Socialism.)

The thing about this is, that the German model of modern socialism is the foundation of the overall European model that is being forced, through the "Constitution" onto the other countries.

I strongly advise that you read the whole article. Pay close attention to the quotes from Herr Goebbels, and how closely they resemble the assertions not only of the EU, bot of members on this very forum when supporting socialism.

P.S. Watch out for the language. The Rottweiler and his friends tend to be a bit outspoken and harsh at times.

Get that? The world's last remaining ideology? I'll venture he doesn't mean communism (alive and twitching in places like Cuba), proto-fascism (Venezuela), nationalism (China), theocracy (Iran), or social dysfunctionalism (old Europe), but Anglo-American capitalism (aka the system used by real economies). On top of this oversight, what does he call capitalism but "new totalitarianism", typical of some squawking National Socialist loon who is completely perplexed at thinking out of the little European statist, socialist, envy driven box. Did we somehow change business rules? No. Are we putting more troops in Germany? No. Is it our fault that the German and French economies suck worse than a warm flat can of Pabst Blue Ribbon? Nope. They stick with their big government, welfare state, "business as work programs" economic model, famous for producing little beyond Euroschlerosis, and keep blaming successful countries for their own continued failures.

European Union - Good Or Bad?

I am quite amazed at how insecure some of the American voices in this debate are.

Imperialistic Eurotards? It was the Imperialistic Eurotards that colonised America was it not? You are all descendants from these so called Eurotards, every single one of you. Such racist and offensive dribble is not welcome in an intellectual discussion.

Furthermore China is more of an immediate 'threat' to "US world domination" so maybe "Uncle Sam" should start turning his cross hairs towards the orient, that is how you like to solve your problems right?

I have visited Europe on a couple of occasions, once before the EU and once since it was introduced. The actual difference to the average European from what I hear is miniscule. The whole point of the EU is to mobilise the region economically. In theory this should allow a collective Europe to compete much more aggressively on the global marketplace. Of course theory and practice never quite meet.

The EU has also encouraged cultural exchange and loosened member's borders which I think is a good thing. I live in a highly multicultural society and view the sharing of culture as enriching.

Of course with any democratic Union there will be some countries who exert more influence than others. The US is the most influential party in the UN, so it's a little bit hypocritical to take issue with Germany or France exerting their influence.

My fiance currently lives in Sweden, a country that is in the EU but has resisted currency change. She is free to travel to any part of Europe and there are far more opportunities for employment and education. From what she and other Europeans tell me there is very little difference apart from this.

I think all this talk about world domination by the Germans and French is driven by unwarranted fear and insecurity. Even if it were true, is it actually a bad thing if another country or region rose to prominence to compete with the world's sole superpower?

European Union Good Bad - Page 3

I'm not sure who made the "Eurotards" comment. I usually see that term used by various British bloggers. BTW, the US was colonized by people fleeing the imperialistic, despotic, oppressive European world. We have helped out twice when oppressive, despotic, imperialistic European countries have tried to take over the world. This time we won't be able to help them break free. This time, all the European countries are bringing it upon themselves (granted, though, against the wishes of the majority of their citizens in most cases.)

The point is that the Germans never even started to give up on the National Socialist economic and ruling philosophies, only the militaristic philosophy. The EU is an extension of National Socialism. So, after two world wars, the Germans will rule Europe. And we will see a massive, failing socialist welfare state bringing down Europe. We already see some of the worst unemployment around in Germany and France. The EU will just drag Britain, Ireland, and the other, slightly more successful countries down. This is shown by the fact that even now, France is screaming about other countries in Europe having "unfair advantages" under the EU, as service companies in eastern Europe provide much better work, at a much better price, than French workers.

Realistically, I expect the EU to collapse under the weight of its own stupidity. The big question is, how much damage will it cause as it collapses?

I don't doubt that people in Sweden, France, and Germany don't see any difference. The difference will be in the poorer Eastern nations that will be crushed by the massive failing economies from the above mentioned countries, not to mention the extremely high probability that within the next 3 or 4 decades, all three of those countries will be Islamist strongholds, which will then overwhelm the rest of the continent thanks to the established EU.

Most of the time, when I post things here about the EU, it comes from reading the writings of European and British people who are against the EU.

European Union Good Bad Politics Business Civil & History - Page 3

Nighthawk, does it really matter where you see this term? It's highly offensive and should not be tolerated in this discussion board. How would you like it if someone called you an Americantard?

The US was colonised by citizens from some of the most ruthless imperialistic regimes in history. And, as you are well aware they were ALL from Europe.

Break who free from what? I'm not aware of any European governments, or even people, calling for US help to break free from the EU. Is this what you mean> Could you please clarify your point.

I never knew this, do you have any proof?

Yet again you need to prove the above statement because it is extremely hard to believe without proof. It certainly isn't a theory I am aware of.

I would argue that the German's position post World War II is far inferior to their power before. The German's don't rule Europe, find me one piece of evidence to back this claim.

US companies have been exploiting armies of Chinese workers at the expense of their own for decades. Isn't the US also having a similar crisis with Indian IT workers? You understand that in a capitalist fuelled society exploitation will always occur to drive profits.

If this is the case why have Eastern bloc countries been desperate to become part of the EU. I'm sure some weaker economies in the short term will have problems but their long term outlook must be brighter as their workforce improves to standards in line with the rest.

Which three countries and show me the proof. Are you really that fearful of the extremely small proportion of Islamic extremists floating around? What research have you done to qualify this belief?

I don't believe Germany, France or Sweden's economy will fail. All economies are cyclical and these countries render a much higher level of education than yours or mine. I believe they are in safe hands, but that is my opinion.

It's obvious your beliefs are coming from people who oppose the EU. Wouldn't it be beneficial to balance this with research from proponents for the EU before drawing a conclusion? While I believe the EU is a good thing I am interested in both sides of the argument, how else can one make an informed opinion.