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European Union - Good Or Bad? - Page 4

Arvhic,

I have found that, in addition to research, trying to understand the principles that identify and underpin principles and the proper role of government have helped me. I believe that all political philosophies and institutions should be measured against natural laws, the laws of God.

The following is a very long and very well-referenced essay covering both rpinciples and issues on the EU which, I might say, addresses the bigger picture too...

Freedom in Jeopardy: The Case Against the EU and Supranationalism

Bad Good Union European

I wasn't supporting the use of the term, just commenting that I most frequently see it used by Europeans and/or British to describe other Europeans or British.

The US was colonised by citizens from some of the most ruthless imperialistic regimes in history. And, as you are well aware they were ALL from Europe.

Yep. That is exactly what I said. The US was colonized by people FLEEING the European empires!

As they continue their downward spiral, they will eventually (most likely) scream for the US to help them out. Of course, while the elites in all of the European countries think that the EU is a wonderful idea, they don't want the US to help them. That will come later.

I never knew this, do you have any proof?

Notice the name. National Socialism. It wasn't just a dream to take over the world for the Third Reich, it was an economic philosophy first and foremost, that embraced the principles of socialism, including governmental control of all industry, intense regulation of all aspects of society, etc. After the war, they continued to embrace these concepts. Now, they consider business to exist primarily as a means of job-creation, not as a means of capital creation. So, the government, unions, and ordinary people are all criticizing businesses, not for their business practices, but because they are unable to provide work for all people. Never mind that they are unable to compete anymore in many different industries.

I read an excellent article on this very subject recently, but don't remember where. You might try Dubhdara's article.

I apologize, but typing really is not fun for me right now, so I will skip some of the rest of your post.

Which three countries and show me the proof. Are you really that fearful of the extremely small proportion of Islamic extremists floating around? What research have you done to qualify this belief?

The three that I had mentioned - Germany, France, and Sweden. All three countries have birthrates among native citizens far below replacement levels. All three have been allowing almost unrestricted immigration, primarily from North Africa, Pakistan, and other Muslim countries. The most current estimates that I have read show that Muslims will have political majorities within three decades. While "extremists" may appear to be a small minority, France and Sweden, in particular have shown that the Muslim immigrants in their countries are VERY damaging to their cultures. As one, single example, I think it was 2004 that had more violent anti-Semitic incidents than in the previous decade. When Muslims are interviewed in those countries, they frequently openly proclaim their desires to establish Islamic states (you know, like Saudi Arabia, Yemen, or Iran).

Enough. You appear to think that the socialist utopia of the European Union will balance out the United States. I disagree, as the EU is built on a very shaky foundation. I believe that the EU is a disaster in the making, and that it will do massive damage to much of the world as it falls. I just state my beliefs on the subject, and offer what little evidence I have to give.

European Union - Good Or Bad? History & Civil Business Politics

Thank you for that post dubhdara, I will have a good read of it when I have a moment.

Night hawk I can't speak of France and Germany, but your assertion that muslim's are taking over Sweden is totally incorrect. I know from first hand experience and through my partner who lives there that this is not the case.

Did you know there are more arabic speaking people who live in Sydney than the whole of Sweden. Strangely they aren't taking over Australia. Sweden has a population more than double Sydney as well.

I have researched your claim with official census infomation from both nations. The migration rate of muslims is also not greater than the birth rate of non-muslim peoples in Sweden. In fact it is significantly lower. Most of the muslim illegals that come into Sweden are Iraqis who have fled political persecution before, and fear of security since the war. The majority of Swedes believe in the Church of Sweden.

Of the estimated 300,000 (approx 3-4%) arab speaking people in Sweden only one third are practising muslims. That is an extremely low rate compared to my country.

Furthermore the jewish population is so small in Sweden I fail to see how there could be much anti-semitism. I have never heard of this before, you will have to provide a link so I can read up on it. Also, a lot of arabs who hail from the middle-east and are not jewish are also semites themselves, so could you please clarify exactly which group of semites you mean with that terrible blanket term.

Sweden is an extremely tolerant nation that encourages a capped level of immigration. A lot of these workers do factory jobs and other low income work, this is my experience of a great country. Their largest immigrant groups by far actually hail from neighbouring Scandinavian countries, certainly not an exodus of extremist arabs.

I will read up that link when I have more than ten minutes, very interested to learn and understand your point of views on the EU.

Cheers

Page 4 Bad Good Union European

I just did a little tiny bit of research on Google. Here are some links:
https://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/stor...,529910,00.html
(This is in Swedish. This following link is a translation (summary), along with more background information.)
https://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003131.php
https://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/003269.php

From Fox News:
https://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139614,00.html

Washington Times:
https://www.washtimes.com/commentary/200310...83517-4718r.htm

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden
https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1372959/posts
(granted it comes from a very conservative source, does that invalidate the information?

Here is some commentary about the replacement rates. It is more optimistic than I am.
https://www.neweuropereview.com/English/english-streusand.cfm

Here is some more analysis and commentary.
https://www.sennholz.com/Europe.html

I do apologize. I was talking about France when I wrote about the very high levels of anti-Semitic activities. It also looks like I might have exaggerated a little bit in my memory. It is only the highest in the last 10 years.
https://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/Publications...id=618&pid=1413
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3061349,00.html

Well, that should be enough for now. I found all those links (and lots more) in only three Google searches. "french anti semitic", "sweden muslim", and "European replacement birthrate muslim".

Bad Good Union European

Thanks for that Nighthawk,

I must concede I misunderstood what you meant about having a higher migration rate than local repletion. Of course the migration rate will be higher as Sweden, like most countries in Europe, is shrinking.

However, according to official census figures I saw on Sweden's population, muslim people are not the largest immigrant population, they don't really come close. And, less than 4% of a nation's population hardly constitutes the threat of invasion.

However what is happening in Malmo is not good, but I would like to see some statisitics that show whether this rise in rape and crime is a result of muslim immigration, or simply just population growth. Furthermore I'd like to see the police and political forces stamp down on this hideaous crime. What is happening in Malmo is certainly not a reflection of the rest of the country.

Offtopic but, In Sydney I must say that we have a large muslim community. There are certainly problems with some of the muslims, but the same could be said for Vietnamese and many other immigrant populations from war-torn nations. I tend to find it is actually the younger generation, a lot who are born in Australia, that tend to have a chip on their shoulder and cause trouble. Most of the older folk that I have met appear model citizens.

Anyway this post is straying well away from the point of discussion. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the EU. I think it is a wait and see, but lets hope it does good.

Message Edited! Persephone: Please use offtopic tags when your message is not the same as the subject of the thread.

European Union - Good Or Bad?

EU CONSTITUTION APPEARS DOOMED IN FRANCE

New opinion polls suggest French voters will reject the proposed new European Constitution in a national referendum on Sunday.
Ref. https://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...tion050526.html

European Union Good Bad - Page 4

Well it would appear that the Union is not all that fantastic afterall and the people are declaring thus with the surprising call of the people of France:

FRENCH VOTE TO REJECT EU CONSTITUTION

French voters resoundingly rejected the proposed European Union constitution Sunday, handing a devastating political defeat to President Jacques Chirac of France and perhaps a fatal blow to the treaty that seeks to pull the 25 member countries together in a closer union.
Ref. https://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C...37763%2C00.html

Offtopic but, I wonder if this will affect the Euro?

European Union Good Bad Politics Business Civil & History - Page 4

DUTCH EXPECTED TO REJECT EU CONSTITUTION

Days after French voters rejected the European Union's proposed constitution, people in the Netherlands are voting whether to adopt the charter.
Ref. https://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/200...tion050601.html