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Is it possible to vote for the Democrats and say you support LDS Standards? Should every member be a Republican? Can you be a good Mormon and a Democrat? Related Information to LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat
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QUOTE I find it telling again that leftwingers in support of the Democratic party seem to absolutely loathe to tell us what is good about their position. I think they know they are wrong and are in that class of people trying to change the Church.
You can't be serious. Are you insinuating that the Church is Republican? If you do, prove it.
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Post Date: 15th Jul, 2011 - 3:16am / Post ID: #
Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS
Name: Rep123
Comments: I agree with the poster that mentioned repentance. You can't possibly call yourself proudly an lds member an at the same time support legislation that could support abortion. Shame on you.
LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat Studies Doctrine Mormon
QUOTE You can't be serious.
Dead serious.
QUOTE Are you insinuating that the Church is Republican?
No. Conservative philosophy merely happens to match LDS doctrine without conflict and leftwing philosophy happens to be diametrically opposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Conservatives happen to all now gravitate Republican just like political liberals all now gravitate Democrat. I myself belong to no party. But you may call me an antiDemocrat.
If conservatives all gravitated Democrat, I would certainly vote for Democratic candidates. Because of the great sifting and division taking place, it is no longer reasonable to consider individual candidates without making party affiliation a major consideration.
Jesus Christ himself preaches division (Matthew 10:34-40). It's time to decide whose side one is really on.
QUOTE Actually no. The sources you provided are from a different era and the rest of your views are just your well-intentioned opinion.
Well, when you are ready to show where LDS doctrine on the subject of the LoC (which bears directly on socialism and the welfare state) has changed, please do so. Since I quoted from an existing manual, I think your task will be impossible.
QUOTE I did in fact provided at least quotes that stated that you can indeed be a good democrat and LDS member.
I'm not speaking about being a member in good standing. Though yes, I believe one's actions in the political arena should have bearing on that.
Are you familiar with the temple recommend questions? When I ask them, I don't ask about someone's politics because like I said, that would alienate many potential converts and we prefer at the moment to let the true doctrine convince people to change their ways. But consider this question:
QUOTE Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
By simple comparison and definition, the Democrat party and every political party to the left of them are groups that are "contrary to or oppose".
QUOTE I know good LDS democrats who're trying hard in making some changes within the party. I'm glad for them.
It's a good intention, but it's also dangerous. Consider: A member of a party is expected to tow the line. In addition, as one lends support and money to a party, they are lending support to that party's ideals and possibly voting organizationally to keep that party in power. The Democrats are too far gone to lend them support without inflicting serious damage on the nation and individuals. This can clearly be seen by the types of legislation that is passed (universal healthcare, raising the debt ceiling, etc.), policies implemented (no more defense of DOMA, etc.), and activist judges nominated.
The best way to change that party is to no longer support it in any way and to actively fight against it.
Edited: bcspace on 15th Jul, 2011 - 7:44amPage 21 Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS
Bsspace,
QUOTE Jesus Christ himself preaches division (Matthew 10:34-40). It's time to decide whose side one is really on.
It's up to the people to decide that. The Church has been very clear when they said they don't choose one side so I find it kind of strange that you want people to oppose the Democrat party just because you think it doesn't match LDS theology you know what am I saying? Let the people choose and if they choose the Democrats they can still be good members and follow Christ.
QUOTE I'm not speaking about being a member in good standing
But you said:
QUOTE No, it is not possible for a good Democrat to be a good Mormon by any measure.
It seems like you're backpedaling?
QUOTE The best way to change that party is to no longer support it in any way and to actively fight against it.
I'm not a Democrat but please show me where the Church encourages people to no longer support the Democrat party. I mean, don't you think you're a little extreme in your thinking you know what am I saying? Kind of radical in a way for someone who says doesn't belong to a political party.
Post Date: 15th Jul, 2011 - 7:35pm / Post ID: #
Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS
From the Salt Lake Tribune, May 3, 1998
QUOTE Dan Harrie
GOP Dominance Troubles Church
It hurts Utah, says general authority, disavowing any perceived Republican-LDS Link
LDS Official Calls for More Political Diversity
The LDS Church, through a high-ranking leader, is making its strongest public statement to date about the need for political diversity among members, while expressing concerns the Republican Party is becoming the "church party."
Elder Marlin K. Jensen
Elder Marlin K. Jensen
"There is sort of a division along Mormon/non-Mormon, Republican/Democratic lines," says Elder Marlin Jensen, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. "We regret that more than anything -- that there would become a church party and a non-church party. That would be the last thing that we would want to have happen."
Jensen said major national political parties may take stands that do not coincide with teachings of the 10 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but that should not put them out of bounds for members.
A former attorney and lifelong Democrat, Jensen was careful in his comments not to suggest an official LDS preference for any political party but to maintain the church's traditional stand of partisan neutrality.
The First Quorum of the Seventy is the third tier in LDS Church leadership after the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and the governing First Presidency.
Jensen for the past three years has been a member of the church's Public Affairs Committee. He was designated by church officials to respond to The Salt Lake Tribune's request for an interview on the topic of partisan imbalance in Utah and among LDS members.
The Tribune's inquiry came on the heels of two significant developments: Utah Democrats' unprecedented failure to field a candidate in a congressional race and a statement from the LDS First Presidency -- read over pulpits in January -- urging members to seek elective office.
In an hourlong interview at the church's worldwide headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City arranged and overseen by LDS media-relations director Mike Otterson, Jensen discussed leaders' views about the seeming demise of two-party politics among members. Among the concerns he aired:
-- The LDS Church's reputation as a one-party monolith is damaging in the long run because of the seesaw fortunes of the national political parties.
-- The overwhelming Republican bent of LDS members in Utah and the Intermountain West undermines the checks-and-balances principle of democratic government.
-- Any notion that it is impossible to be a Democrat and a good Mormon is wrongheaded and should be "obliterated."
-- Faithful LDS members have a moral obligation to actively participate in politics and civic affairs, a duty many have neglected.
"I am in shock," Utah Democratic Party Chairwoman Meghan Zanolli Holbrook said when told of Jensen's comments. "I have never heard anything like this in the years I've been here."
"That's an earthshaker," said Democrat Ted Wilson, head of the University of Utah's Hinckley Institute of Politics and a longtime critic of the close connection between the Mormon Church and Republican Party.
"Mormon Democrats have been praying for this," said Wilson, who is LDS. "This is more than seeking -- we have beseeched the divinity over this."
Utah Republican Chairman Rob Bishop's reaction was less enthusiastic. "Any time a major player in the social fabric of the state, like the church, says something, it will have an impact."
"We obviously will not change," Bishop added. "If Mormons feel comfortable we welcome them. And if non-Mormons feel comfortable, we welcome them, too."
Jensen, who was called as a general authority in 1989, said high church officials lament the near-extinction of the Democratic Party in Utah and the perception -- incorrect though it is -- that the GOP enjoys official sanction of the church.
All five Congress members from Utah are Mormon and Republican, four of the five statewide offices are held by GOP officials and two-thirds of the state Legislature is Republican. Nearly 90 percent of state lawmakers are LDS. Democrats last held a majority in the state House in 1975, and in the Senate in 1977.
President Clinton finished third in balloting in Utah in 1992, the only state in which the Democrat finished behind Republican George Bush and independent Ross Perot. Utahns last voted for a Democrat for president in 1964, when they supported Lyndon B. Johnson.
Public-opinion polls show voters identifying themselves as Republican outnumber Democrats by a ratio of about 2-1.
However, a statewide survey taken in April by Valley Research, The Tribune's independent pollster, found the state equally divided when asked if the question if Republicans had too much power. Forty-six percent of the 502 respondents answered yes, 45 percent did not believe the GOP held too much sway and nine percent were unsure.
"One of the things that prompted this discussion in the first place was the regret that's felt about the decline of the Democratic Party [in Utah] and the notion that may prevail in some areas that you can't be a good Mormon and a good Democrat at the same time," Jensen said.
"There have been some awfully good men and women who have been both and are both today. So I think it would be a very healthy thing for the church -- particularly the Utah church -- if that notion could be obliterated."
The idea that Mormonism and Democratic Party affiliation are incompatible traces back to the early 1970s, when LDS general authority Ezra Taft Benson, who later became church president, was quoted in an Associated Press interview as saying it would be difficult for a faithful member to be a liberal Democrat.
Church officials later claimed the comment was taken out of context, although the AP stood by its account.
Jensen said concerns exist on two levels about the unofficial linkage of the Republican Party and Mormon Church.
One is the fear that by being closely identified with one political party, the church's national reputation and influence is subject to the roller-coaster turns and dips of that partisan organization. Also bothersome is that the uncontested dominance of the Republican Party in Utah deprives residents of the debate and competition of ideas that underlie good government.
"There is a feeling that even nationally as a church, it's not in our best interest to be known as a one-party church," Jensen said. "The national fortunes of the parties ebb and flow. Whereas the Republicans may clearly have the upper hand today, in another 10 years they may not."
...
Peck, whose Salt Lake City-based independent journal publishes articles on historical and contemporary Mormonism, predicts similar comments will be made in other settings -- church firesides and the like, because messages sent by LDS general authorities are repeated.
"Privately, I've heard reports of these opinions, but not publicly," Peck said. "The church leaders have been careful about saying anything publicly."
The tremendous growth of the Mormon Church worldwide has forced attention to its image as a good, trustworthy neighbor in the communities, states and countries where it is taking root, he said.
"We need to develop a tolerance -- so we don't demonize people that we have a disagreement with," Peck said. "It really was the church leaders' position on abortion and the Equal Rights Amendment [in the 1970s] that was the death of the Utah Democratic Party, because it became a litmus test," he said.
Pro-choice and, more recently, gay-rights stands of the national Democratic Party have helped Republicans paint the donkey-symbol party as taboo.
Jensen said it is time for LDS members to take a broader view of political affiliation.
"We would probably hope that they wouldn't abandon a party necessarily because it has a philosophy or two that may not square with Mormonism. Because, as I say, [parties] in their philosophies ebb and flow," Jensen said.
"You know, the Republicans came very close last time to bringing a pro-abortion plank into their platform. That was maybe the biggest battle of their [1996 national] convention," he said. "Which shows that if you're a pure ideologue, eventually you're going to have trouble in either party."
"Everyone who is a good Latter-day Saint is going to have to pick and choose a little bit regardless of the party that they're in and that may be required a lot more in the future than it has been in the past. But I think there's room for that and the gospel leaves us lots of latitude."
GOP Dominance Troubles Church
It hurts Utah, says general authority, disavowing any perceived Republican-LDS Link
LDS Official Calls for More Political Diversity
The LDS Church, through a high-ranking leader, is making its strongest public statement to date about the need for political diversity among members, while expressing concerns the Republican Party is becoming the "church party."
Elder Marlin K. Jensen
Elder Marlin K. Jensen
"There is sort of a division along Mormon/non-Mormon, Republican/Democratic lines," says Elder Marlin Jensen, a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. "We regret that more than anything -- that there would become a church party and a non-church party. That would be the last thing that we would want to have happen."
Jensen said major national political parties may take stands that do not coincide with teachings of the 10 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but that should not put them out of bounds for members.
A former attorney and lifelong Democrat, Jensen was careful in his comments not to suggest an official LDS preference for any political party but to maintain the church's traditional stand of partisan neutrality.
The First Quorum of the Seventy is the third tier in LDS Church leadership after the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and the governing First Presidency.
Jensen for the past three years has been a member of the church's Public Affairs Committee. He was designated by church officials to respond to The Salt Lake Tribune's request for an interview on the topic of partisan imbalance in Utah and among LDS members.
The Tribune's inquiry came on the heels of two significant developments: Utah Democrats' unprecedented failure to field a candidate in a congressional race and a statement from the LDS First Presidency -- read over pulpits in January -- urging members to seek elective office.
In an hourlong interview at the church's worldwide headquarters in downtown Salt Lake City arranged and overseen by LDS media-relations director Mike Otterson, Jensen discussed leaders' views about the seeming demise of two-party politics among members. Among the concerns he aired:
-- The LDS Church's reputation as a one-party monolith is damaging in the long run because of the seesaw fortunes of the national political parties.
-- The overwhelming Republican bent of LDS members in Utah and the Intermountain West undermines the checks-and-balances principle of democratic government.
-- Any notion that it is impossible to be a Democrat and a good Mormon is wrongheaded and should be "obliterated."
-- Faithful LDS members have a moral obligation to actively participate in politics and civic affairs, a duty many have neglected.
"I am in shock," Utah Democratic Party Chairwoman Meghan Zanolli Holbrook said when told of Jensen's comments. "I have never heard anything like this in the years I've been here."
"That's an earthshaker," said Democrat Ted Wilson, head of the University of Utah's Hinckley Institute of Politics and a longtime critic of the close connection between the Mormon Church and Republican Party.
"Mormon Democrats have been praying for this," said Wilson, who is LDS. "This is more than seeking -- we have beseeched the divinity over this."
Utah Republican Chairman Rob Bishop's reaction was less enthusiastic. "Any time a major player in the social fabric of the state, like the church, says something, it will have an impact."
"We obviously will not change," Bishop added. "If Mormons feel comfortable we welcome them. And if non-Mormons feel comfortable, we welcome them, too."
Jensen, who was called as a general authority in 1989, said high church officials lament the near-extinction of the Democratic Party in Utah and the perception -- incorrect though it is -- that the GOP enjoys official sanction of the church.
All five Congress members from Utah are Mormon and Republican, four of the five statewide offices are held by GOP officials and two-thirds of the state Legislature is Republican. Nearly 90 percent of state lawmakers are LDS. Democrats last held a majority in the state House in 1975, and in the Senate in 1977.
President Clinton finished third in balloting in Utah in 1992, the only state in which the Democrat finished behind Republican George Bush and independent Ross Perot. Utahns last voted for a Democrat for president in 1964, when they supported Lyndon B. Johnson.
Public-opinion polls show voters identifying themselves as Republican outnumber Democrats by a ratio of about 2-1.
However, a statewide survey taken in April by Valley Research, The Tribune's independent pollster, found the state equally divided when asked if the question if Republicans had too much power. Forty-six percent of the 502 respondents answered yes, 45 percent did not believe the GOP held too much sway and nine percent were unsure.
"One of the things that prompted this discussion in the first place was the regret that's felt about the decline of the Democratic Party [in Utah] and the notion that may prevail in some areas that you can't be a good Mormon and a good Democrat at the same time," Jensen said.
"There have been some awfully good men and women who have been both and are both today. So I think it would be a very healthy thing for the church -- particularly the Utah church -- if that notion could be obliterated."
The idea that Mormonism and Democratic Party affiliation are incompatible traces back to the early 1970s, when LDS general authority Ezra Taft Benson, who later became church president, was quoted in an Associated Press interview as saying it would be difficult for a faithful member to be a liberal Democrat.
Church officials later claimed the comment was taken out of context, although the AP stood by its account.
Jensen said concerns exist on two levels about the unofficial linkage of the Republican Party and Mormon Church.
One is the fear that by being closely identified with one political party, the church's national reputation and influence is subject to the roller-coaster turns and dips of that partisan organization. Also bothersome is that the uncontested dominance of the Republican Party in Utah deprives residents of the debate and competition of ideas that underlie good government.
"There is a feeling that even nationally as a church, it's not in our best interest to be known as a one-party church," Jensen said. "The national fortunes of the parties ebb and flow. Whereas the Republicans may clearly have the upper hand today, in another 10 years they may not."
...
Peck, whose Salt Lake City-based independent journal publishes articles on historical and contemporary Mormonism, predicts similar comments will be made in other settings -- church firesides and the like, because messages sent by LDS general authorities are repeated.
"Privately, I've heard reports of these opinions, but not publicly," Peck said. "The church leaders have been careful about saying anything publicly."
The tremendous growth of the Mormon Church worldwide has forced attention to its image as a good, trustworthy neighbor in the communities, states and countries where it is taking root, he said.
"We need to develop a tolerance -- so we don't demonize people that we have a disagreement with," Peck said. "It really was the church leaders' position on abortion and the Equal Rights Amendment [in the 1970s] that was the death of the Utah Democratic Party, because it became a litmus test," he said.
Pro-choice and, more recently, gay-rights stands of the national Democratic Party have helped Republicans paint the donkey-symbol party as taboo.
Jensen said it is time for LDS members to take a broader view of political affiliation.
"We would probably hope that they wouldn't abandon a party necessarily because it has a philosophy or two that may not square with Mormonism. Because, as I say, [parties] in their philosophies ebb and flow," Jensen said.
"You know, the Republicans came very close last time to bringing a pro-abortion plank into their platform. That was maybe the biggest battle of their [1996 national] convention," he said. "Which shows that if you're a pure ideologue, eventually you're going to have trouble in either party."
"Everyone who is a good Latter-day Saint is going to have to pick and choose a little bit regardless of the party that they're in and that may be required a lot more in the future than it has been in the past. But I think there's room for that and the gospel leaves us lots of latitude."
Now while I don't belong to either party, to me the left holds more standing int he important aspects, the ones we were taught very first, Love one another, care for others, help your neighbor, Love of God over love of Money, etc...really the only thing I object to vigorously in the Democrats is the Abortion issue.
Personally I would like to see reform in the welfare system, something modeled on our system would be great, a way to earn food and supplies with retention of dignity and throwing in job training to boot. However the idea to cut out or cut down the system we have now without something in place would spell disaster!
1 in 4 US children face hunger. A full 25%, does that sound like a first world nation? Not at all.
I'm one who has to face assistance. I started working full time my 12th summer, and started waitressing at 15, I worked my way mostly through college and my hubby through school. However no I face a chronic disability and 3 kids at home. My hubby makes 32k a year as cop, putting his life on the line. Our mortgage eats up half our take home. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been lazy yet I am in the category a huge number of GOPs look down on. I have a number of men in my ward who worked diligently for 20-30+ years and have recently been laid off. They did nothing wrong yet the GOP would villianize them, as well. (Reagan started it in 1980)
Showing contempt for those in need goes against everything we've been taught in general conference at least the past two times. It goes against everything Christ taught here on the earth, that is why my heart and the spirit has guided me to go this route.
LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat
Miriavas:
QUOTE Showing contempt for those in need goes against everything we've been taught in general conference at least the past two times. It goes against everything Christ taught here on the earth, that is why my heart and the spirit has guided me to go this route.
I absolutely agree. We're here to care for one another, not to make the rich richer and the poor, poorer which seems to be the Republican way to deal with things.
LDS Democrat Mormon Democrat - Page 21
QUOTE The Church has been very clear when they said they don't choose one side so I find it kind of strange that you want people to oppose the Democrat party just because you think it doesn't match LDS theology you know what am I saying?
I know and I'm sure you know that it doesn't match. The reason I know you know that is because you are unwilling to put forth anything the Democrats are in favor of doing so we can compare it with LDS doctrine.
Let the people choose
It's not that the Church is saying it's doctrine is neutral on party affiliation. The Church is saying that it teaches correct principles and let's the people govern themselves. The Church has in no way absolved anyone of the consequences of their choices.
QUOTE and if they choose the Democrats they can still be good members and follow Christ.
They can possibly be in good standing be they certainly can't be good members or follow Christ by making that choice.
QUOTE It seems like you're backpedaling?
Not one whit (see directly above).
QUOTE I'm not a Democrat but please show me where the Church encourages people to no longer support the Democrat party.
They don't have to specifically state it. The Democrats themselves are in opposition to the Church on virtually every issue, some of which I've listed. The fact that you're not addressing those issues nor are you putting forth anything the Democrats might be doing that is not in opposition to the Church tells me you agree with me or can't find anything to gainsay what I've said.
QUOTE I mean, don't you think you're a little extreme in your thinking
Not at all. How could a rational comparison with doctrine be considered extreme unless the one making that judgement feared the results of such comparison?
QUOTE Kind of radical in a way for someone who says doesn't belong to a political party.
Not really. But Jesus was also considered quite radical by his contemporary opposition.
QUOTE I absolutely agree. We're here to care for one another, not to make the rich richer and the poor, poorer which seems to be the Republican way to deal with things.
The Democrats seem to want to make everyone poorer and remove freedoms whereas conservatives seem to know how to create wealth which helps everyone.
QUOTE GOP Dominance Troubles Church
It should. It means the other party is not pulling it's weight when it comes to applying the Gospel and in fact is actively opposiing it. It also means that a large portion of potential converts will shy away instead of first being converted and then change their ways.
QUOTE Personally I would like to see reform in the welfare system, something modeled on our system would be great, a way to earn food and supplies with retention of dignity and throwing in job training to boot. However the idea to cut out or cut down the system we have now without something in place would spell disaster!
It's the Democrats who have cut down the job training portion of the system. Your fixation on Republicans merely shows that you are not interested in reform but the continuation of handouts and the theft of wealth.
Reform modeled on the LoC would be great. It would mean an elimination of handouts except for those who truly need it. It would also mean people could opt in or opt out as agency dictates instead of everyone being forced to pay for someone else's lifestyle choice.
Edited: bcspace on 15th Jul, 2011 - 8:02pmLDS Democrat Mormon Democrat Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 21
Bsspace:
QUOTE It's not that the Church is saying it's doctrine is neutral on party affiliation.
Really? You're either misinformed or you're just playing "technical". The Church position:
QUOTE The Church's mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics.This applies in all of the many nations in which it is established.
The Church does not:
* Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
* Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
* Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
* Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.
The Church does not:
* Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
* Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
* Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
* Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.
Source 3
The statement is VERY CLEAR.
1. The Church is neutral in politics.
2. The Church does NOT promote or OPPOSE any political party.
3. The Church doesn't ATTEMPT to direct its members to whatever party they should vote.
So after reviewing this and with all due respect, what makes you think that it's okay for you to oppose the Democrat party? And what is more, what makes you think somehow the Church approves of your action?
TOPIC: LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat