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Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

That's certainly true, as far as it goes.  However, the party politicos don't like it much when people vote against party ideas.


Also, the core consituencies really don't like it when party representatives vote against them.  Since these core groups provide most of the funding and publicity, going against them is not a good thing.



For example, imagine a Democrat Senator who votes against the teachers' unions.  He or she might as well pack their bags, because they are not likely to get the Democrat nomination next time around.  Or, heaven help a Democrat who angers the NOW.


On the other hand, a Repulican who votes to raise taxes, restrict gun rights and liberalize abortions is not going to get a lot of support from Republican core constituencies.


This is where LDS principles (or any moral code) comes into play.  I, personally, don't see how LDS principles can line up at all with what the Democratic party has become.  It is controlled by those who seek further expansion of governmental power into every aspect of our lives, increased abortions, reduced personal liberty, reduced property rights, and continued lowering of standards of behavior.


The Republican party isn't much better, as it seems to be controlled by the Social Democrats as well.  They do fight a rear guard action about gun rights, some property and individual liberty issues, and abortion.  But there is very little actual fighting for real property rights and reduced government.  Witness the fact that all but one Republican representative voted for the USA PATRIOT ACT.



Even the perennial LDS favorite, Orrin Hatch, voted for it, and he continually pushes for the "flag burning" amendment.  If I remember right, he was a moving force in the recent "campaign finance reform" movement.


So, I, personally, find a huge disconnect between LDS principles and the Democratic party.


Nighthawk

Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS

Re: Democrat LDS? Farseer

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.  Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)


What a lot of people in the U.S. tend to forget is that we started as a REPUBLIC, not a Democracy.  We pledge allegiance to the Republic, not the Democracy.  A Republic is supposed to be run by the People, not by the Government, and the Representatives of the People should act on behalf of, and for the benefit of, those who elected them.



A democracy, on the other hand, is MAJORITY RULE -- even if it is also supposed to be a government by and for the people.







Right now in the U.S. we have kind of a weird hybrid of the two forms.  And we are quickly losing ground in personal liberty.  Most people don't see it because they are too involved with their day-to-day living to pay much attention to politics.  I was that way too for a long time.


The USA PATRIOT ACT, the War On Drugs, and others exchange our personal liberties for "security" or "safety."  Here's another quote from Benjamin Franklin: "Those who exchange liberty for security

will soon find that they have neither." (this is mostly misquoted as 'deserve neither' and which may be more true)


I don't think it matters much which of the two main political parties is "in charge."  They have both become so corrupt as to be indistinguishable from each other.  So not much good is done by either party; they are too busy trying to strip power from the others and hoard it to themselves.

As LDS members we need to be on our guard, particularly in these latter days, to protect ourselves and not affiliate with or support  organizations that support laws that go against our deeply-held beliefs.  It's hard to get involved, and for a lot of people with "other things" to worry about, this just isn't important enough to them to do anything about.  But this is how "slippage" starts... when good men (and women) do nothing.

In my opinion, of course.
Roz


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

Absolutely.  But I think it is more than just being involved with "other things".  I think it is very hard for most of us to see any way of making a real difference.  Both parties are so fully controlled by the real money, that most of us can't see how our messages can cut through the noise.  Of course, we can always join a "third party" or run as independants, but there is seldom enough money available for us to even get our messages out, let alone make a difference.

I agree with you 100% on the discussion about republic vs. democracy.  That was what was so funny about the California debacle.  All the liberals were crying about how it was an attack on democracy, when it was actually an attack by democracy against the republic!

Nighthawk


Re: Democrat LDS? Farseer

Nighthawk

said

Very true.  And as a previous poster pointed out, other political parties are often seen as wackos because they aren't "mainstream" in their ideas and objectives.  Hard to raise money on the wacko ticket.


I may not be able to make a difference *nationally*, but I can make a difference in my own little town.  I write letters and annoy the local politicos when I point out their silly, stupid, or illegal acts in newsprint.  ;D  City Hall knows me by name.  In fact, I think the receptionist actually knows my voice.


We can make difference.  It just won't necessarily be nationwide.  Keep an eye on your mayor and those cronies, the sheriff or other police agency chiefs, on your state legistator, and even your congressperson if you can keep up with him/her....

But I digress.

We can only do the best we can to elect the potentially best choice, whether Democrat or Republican.  Investigate the voting record of the candidate, his/her experience in other offices.  But, in my personal opinion, we as LDS have to keep ourselves as far removed as possible from anything that goes against our beliefs.  To do otherwise is hypocrisy.

IMO

Roz


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

I ran across these two articles today, about the "war" between the Left and the Right in the US.  Since the Democrats are generally linked tightly to the Left, this seems entirely appropriate to this topic.

The Second American Civil War: What it's about

https://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35074

The 2nd American Civil War: What it's about – part 2

https://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35186

Here is a snippet:

and my favorite comparison

Nighthawk

LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat Studies Doctrine Mormon

Re: Democrat LDS? Farseer

Ha!  Those are great quotes...  okay, here I go again, running off on a tangent when I should be doing dishes or laundry or something else constructive... Honestly, my job really gets in the way of my *real* life...  (If I could make a living by researching stuff I want to learn, I'd be a happy woman.)

Roz (Ayn Rand, anyone?)


Re: Democrat LDS? imanua Yes - one can be a good member of the LDS Church and be a Democrat. These issues are politicized for political reasons. For me, the most important issue, and something that  I keep reminding everyone is to be aware of our freedom to make choices. Without the our liberty as individuals to choose for ourselves, but rather just follows blindly, then we'll loose our greatest blessing. Remember Lucifer?

Than again, why Democrat or Republican?  What about other parties, or even new parties?  


Re: Democrat LDS? JB@Trinidad

This may be due to the fact that Republican and Democratic parties dominate the typical voting public. However, which party would you be for?

Page 2 Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS

I have just revisited this topic, a little bit. I am leaning more and more towards libertarian ideas. I am currently reading some material from the Ludwig von Mises Institute which teaches the Austrian School of Economics. The Austrian School is very libertarian, free market, and freedom oriented. I find it very much like my understanding of the Gospel, although I am positive that many, maybe even most, members would disagree (thus my self description as an Unorthodox Mormon ).

NightHawk

Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS

I was just wondering how many democrat LDS will vote for Kerry this coming election and if there are those who are disappointed with Bush and will just vote to get him out. The Church seems to unofficially stand with the Republicans (bold statement, but that is how I have seen it, correct me if I am wrong) and so the membership just follows... or is it that members in general really do not think for themselves politically? I bring this up because I have never heard of an LDS party or at least one formed on the view points of the LDS. I think Joseph Smith made a bold move when he ran for President and possibly was trying to tell us something?

LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat

Actually, there is an LDS oriented political party. I think it is the Independant American Party. It is in Utah. It may be loosely associated with the Constitution Party. The problem I have with it is that it is formed BECAUSE of a prophecy, that is, some members have created it and named it because Joseph Smith reportedly prophesied about it.

I know a few LDS who will vote for Kerry. I think it is too bad, as he is completely opposed to everything that Mormonism stands for.

NightHawk

LDS Democrat Mormon Democrat - Page 2

About the LDS Party... then why hasn't some LDS in Utah got together and just formed one rather than associate themselves with the Republicans or Democratsor even a supposed Prophecy? Surely they will get enough votes?

About Kerry... well have you ever confronted them with their standards vs. his standards kind of talk? Or is it that they will just do anything to get Bush out?

LDS Democrat Mormon Democrat Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

I live in Massachusetts where the majority of citizens (at least those born and raised here) are democrat or if not official enrolled as democrat, vote democrat. I think, even a number of the Church members. They vote for the social programs and ignore the lack of morality. At least that is what I see.

I think we need to decide which is more important. For me the moral issues are greater. I don't think we lack for social programs in this country, but we sure are having trouble with morality. I don't know how anyone can vote for a major democrat party member in the state things are currently and then cry about how we lack morals in this country. Things change when the people make them change. If people continue to elect people who stand for people of low morality or for a member of a party of low morality, they are saying it doesn't matter that much to them.

It may be a choice of the lesser of two evils, but that is a start.

Edited: tenaheff on 17th Mar, 2004 - 12:09am