Close Topic Options

Mormon - Oh Thou Meat Eater! - Page 3

Oh yeah, right after eating Thanksgiving dinner . Actually I was just thinking that, usually during the holidays people tend to overeat meat. How bad that can be if you tend to eat meat sparingly during the year?

Eater Meat Thou - Mormon

Well, the lord advised for us to eat meat sparingly.

The lord is probably saying it should not be the majority of what you eat, you need a variety of food, the most you need is wheat and grains, though alot of people make meat the main course.

All animals have been given to us for our own purposes, God has given us the responsibilty to take care of them and treat them in a christ-like manner. If killing them for the use of man actually helps and feeds us, there is nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.

[quote=D&C 49:}

18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from cmeats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;
19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.
20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.
21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.[/quote]

Message Edited... JB: Please learn to use the quote tags.

Mormon - Oh Thou Meat Eater! Studies Doctrine Mormon

I am not a vegetarian (at least not in fact).

I prefer not to make this a matter of faith, but to keep it a matter of healthy living.

I propose that the Doctrine and Covenants passage in question is certainly widely abused in the church, but that it probably was intended to mean what it is widely understood, and what it is footnoted to mean.

I'd like to start by establishing what appear to me to be indisputable facts:

1. The modern English grammatical meaning of the following selected segment from D&C 49:18 is clearly "Don't tell anybody they mustn't be a vegetarian."

"whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats is not ordained of God" (D&C 49:18)

2. The full contextual meaning of the following statement is clearly "Don't tell anybody they must be a vegetarian."

"And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God; For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance." (D&C 49:18-19)

3. The consensus of the world on the meaning of 1 Timothy 4: 3 is that it's wrong to proscribe/forbid/outlaw marriage and particular foods to Christians for religious reasons.

4. A preponderance of scientific evidence links excessive animal product consumption to heart disease, cancer, arthritis, etc.

5. Doctrine and Covenants 89 clearly says animals are ordained to be used sparingly for man, not as the staff of life, but sparingly.

Synthesizing all the above into a view on diet and religion, I believe the following is true:

1. It's unwise and unpleasing to make religious or faith claims or demands with regard to diet. This is not a special condition where diet is concerned; it is merely an extension of the principle of the mote and the beam, "teach by example", and "judge not".

2. It's unwise to consume a significant amount of animal products. At least 90% of ongoing caloric intake (fat/carbohydrate/protein) should come from plants (grains, beans, roots, tubers, greens, fruits, nuts, etc.)

3. It may be unwise to eliminate animal product consumption entirely from one's personal diet, for both social/spiritual and health/physical reasons.

I don't think that the above is disputable on a rational basis. But I welcome refinements and corrections.

J.M.

Page 3 Eater Meat Thou - Mormon

Justin said:

I am not sure if I grasp entirely what you are trying to say, before I jump into conclusions,would you mind expanding more on that point?

Eater Meat Thou - Mormon

LDS_Forever said:

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. And thanks doubly for being so careful not to jump to conclusions. Perhaps you can help me improve my perspective and expression.

There may be both social/spiritual and health/physical reasons that make it unwise to eliminate animal product consumption entirely from one's personal diet.

HEALTH/PHYSICAL
-There is not, to my knowledge, a publicized way of avoiding vitamin B12 deficiency without annual animal product consumption (or supplementation). I would be delighted to be corrected.

-At times of cold or extreme need of physical performance, animal products (including dairy) provide a helpful shortcut that can't be duplicated with plant food. This may be a rare case, but is real. Animal products (including dairy) make one's life fuse burn faster.

SOCIAL/SPIRITUAL
-As Jesus told the seventy to "eat what they put in front of you", sometimes it is pleasing to the Father that we eat what we are given, even if it is flesh or dairy. I find that this alone in a typical person's life provides more than the preferred amount of animal product consumption.

To help avoid understanding, you should understand it is my belief that very little animal products are necessary for health. I lament the regrettable cultural taboo in the Church against eating meat sparingly.

I hope you will let me know of any other things I should consider.

J.M.

Edited: JustinM on 8th Dec, 2006 - 10:38pm

Mormon - Oh Thou Meat Eater!

Thanks for clarifying that Justin, let me comment in some of your points:

The benefit of eating meats reside in the fact that is the fastest way to get protein. Nevertheless, you can obtain all these things in grains and vegetables. Most vegetarians use a B12 supplement and they do great. It is a misconception that somebody's health is at risk because they have no meat on their diets. What do you think Adam and Eve ate while in the Garden of Eden?

I agree but most members eat meats every day even during summer time. I live in the Caribbean where is very hot every single day, we never have winter yet most members eat lots of meat.

I think we should be grateful for food in itself knowing a big percentage of the population in the world does not have that blessing, nevertheless as members of the Church we should watch out how much meat we eat, I think we overdo it and we do not see anything wrong with it.

Edited: LDS_forever on 8th Dec, 2006 - 10:55pm

Mormon - Thou Meat Eater! - Page 3

And fat. And whatever. It's the fastest way to live. Earlier puberty for girls. Higher performance. Earlier death.

Indeed. And in a more pleasing way to the Father.

Yes. With a supplement I don't know of any physical reasons it would be dangerous to reduce animal product consumption to zero. But I may be wrong.

You are right. It is a grave and widespread and ingrained misconception in the church.

Hmm. I dunno. :-)

Sad, but true.

Indeed. It sounds like we don't have a lot of additional information for each other. But I do have some questions for you:

-How long has it been since you had any flesh of beast, fowl, or fish?

-How long has it been since you had any dairy including cheese?

-Do you avoid dairy?

-How long has it been since you had honey?

-Do you avoid honey?

May I ask more questions if I have them? :-) You are very kind.

Have a wonderful day, LDSF!

J.M.

Mormon - Thou Meat Eater! Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 3

Let us not forget that the Levites feasted on whole lambs, so we were not born to be vegetarians. I agree with JustinM's take on the matter, however I feel in general the Saints make meat a focal part of the meal and I do not think the Lord wanted it that way.

Meat eating is really a large industry of the world. Slaughter and forced fed or under fed animals to keep up with demand is both sickening and heart breaking for the Lord I am sure.

Rather off topic, but... Check the Thread called 'Meatrix' in the Matrix Board for more insight into the industry.

To test my theory announce that at your next meal there will be no meat and you will get weird looks from family members. Announce that you are having a potluck activity at Church, but meat should not be included and you will get weird looks, maybe even strong complaints. Meat should be an occasional thing I feel, maybe it could be used like an 'extra' treat like on Sundays as a for instance.