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This probably goes without saying, but I think your own actions were terrible. (and I checked out your religious affiliation first before responding.) Not to mention a waste of good food.

I don't think someone leaning on a vehicle is really related to being illegal or legal, it is a difference in culture or maybe a lack of consideration for others. I am always teaching my grandson to not bump into or touch other peoples cars. Maybe this person has never been taught that. This is especially true if they come from a country where no one ever had a nice vehicle. It just isn't always second nature.

As I have already said, I have no tolerance for illegal immigrants because they are breaking the law, but I must say that most immigrants that I meet are pretty hard working in an effort to get ahead. That is what this country is supposed to be about. I do not think we should let people come in a take jobs away that citizens of this country would like simply because they will do it cheaper either. However, legal immigration is not necessarily a bad thing. Trouble is that those here legally get lumped in with those here illegally by society. I also do not like having to tell the ATM machine which language I want to conduct my transaction in! It offends me, but they don't care because money is money and if they want to do business with the large and growing hispanic population they need to do all they can to compete for this business.

I watched a PBS show documenting a local hispanic family and their efforts to communicate with the school as well as help their young sons with their homework even though they don't speak english. Since we are not going to do anything measurable to send these people back to their native countries, it really is in our best interest to make sure their children get educated as well as possible so that they can be good, functional citizens. I am shocked at my own thoughts and I type this because usually this is not my position, but as I think of it, it seems right. However, my first thought is send them all back from where they came! That is what we should do if they are not here legally, but it doesn't seem like those we have elected have the stomach for it.

Edited: tenaheff on 3rd Mar, 2004 - 3:20pm

Them Hate Them Love Immigrants

I agree with you 100%. The thing is that some Americans in general do not make and do not want to make the distinction between a legal and illegal immigrant (because as far as they concen we all should come from we came from!). I was living in the US for 2 years legally, do you think it made any kind of difference? heck no!. I was treated like if I was an illegal immigrant and every time somebody meet me they talked to me in english like if I was deaf or they directly spoke to me in Spanish assuming and stereotyping that because I'm hispanic, I'm ignorant, I cannot have a college education and of course I cannot speak english!. It was sickening!.

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Dio the Dark wrote:

Farseer wrote:

I agree with both of you but the problem is like Dio said is that most of these illegal immigrants are not even literate! so how in the world can you teach them english when they don't even know spanish correctly and they don't know how to write?! It's crazy.

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I wonder if we didn't have such a big problem with illegals would this still be a problem. In reality, probably. It has always been a problem. When the Irish were immigrating in the 1850's they were discrimated against horribly and they spoke the language. Signs for employment would say "Irish Need Not Apply." Then the Italians followed them and they were persecuted by everyone including the Irish.

I think it is terrible, but it seems to be a part of human nature and not just a recent trend.

Them Hate Them Love Immigrants

But isn't funny? because the United States of America is indeed a land who was built by immigrants, it's an immigrant country itself....so it's a way to discriminate themselves if you think about...if they analyze closely their roots, grandparents or great-grandparents were immigrants who went to the US for a better life. So I find is stupid to discriminate somebody who is from Italy for instance when their grandparents came from there too without a cent and with no education whatsoever!.

Immigrants - Love Them Or Hate Them?

When my grandparents immigrated here from Norway in 1902, they learned enough English where they would not offend anyone and also to get by.

When my siblings and I were little, we used to ask Daddy to say different words in Norwegian for us. He couldn't, why? Because his parents FORBADE their children to speak anything by English. "...This is your new country, you will only speak it's language."

What my grandparents did was NOT the exception to the rule. I have heard many of my contemporaries, whose grandparents and great grandparents immigrated here, relate similar stories. YES they lived in communities made up of their ethnic/cultural/religious groups, BUT they insisted/demanded that their children learn english and american ways.

What really 'Get's My Goat' about the new immigrants and illegals is they refuse to learn english, refuse to assimilate into the US Culture. And I, for one am so tired of the US bending over and touching our noses to the ground to be over polite to them. Politically Correct. Bah, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth!!

In My Humble Opinion, of course.

agene

Immigrants Love Them Hate Them - Page 2

Agene,sometimes, I think we bleed the same blood (for lack of a better term).

My family is irish and dutch (mainly)with a blend of spanish,welch,scot and apache indian. And if they had not learned the language back in the old days imagine how much worse it would have been for them.Part of coming to America was to become "american" with that there is a language.Tons of immigrants chose to 'forget' their native tougue for reasons as simple as starting over,because thats what it is.A new life,the old one must have been really bad if you left it,right? The bottom line is we have made it too easy.Esp.in southern cal ( if you dont live and work among these people in what used to be excellant paying jobs,that are now undersold by companies that are willing to hire illlegals right off the truck,literally.In communities that are being swallowed up by grouping up and destroying property,then you cannot possibly know what I am talking about,and this will be nothing more than a rant to you,so dont read on if your heart bleeds for such things).

Berfore I go further I should elaborate a little about my character,I am not a bleeding heart,I earn my way every step,and I expect no less from those I interact with on a regular basis(regardless of the language they speak,or the color of their skin)excuses are for those that are lazy.I also own up to my mistakes,and treat people (including elders) with enormous respect.I also believe more can be told about a mans spirit with a good handshake than a thousand conversations with him.I am always willing to learn(everyone has something to teach us,even if your chivalry is the subject).I bleed Red ,White,and Blue.And I fear/respect God.
All things I dont see in many people these days.
I also know the difference between an illegal and an immigrant.And as I have said before I have great respect for those who are trying for a better life,as long as they dont forget there is alot of people here already trying for the same thing,and those that are here speak a certain language(one that those who came before you had to learn) that you should consider learning if you are ever to achieve the better life.common sense.
Tenaheff :

My actions always seem terrible to people who would bring a religous affiliation to a discussion about ILLEGAL immigrants .And the food was a lot better than my fist. BTW.I never waste my knuckles.


Just for the forum record I would never treat another human being with disrepect 'if' he/she were trying to comunicate with me,thats absurd. Not to say it does'nt happen though.In this particular instance I asked this person to get away from my truck twice and he did not understand a single word I said,his responce to me was cursing ( if you dont speak a single word of english you are illegal duh?)well on a construction site we dont run to daddy to tell him someone is causing trouble we settle things the old fashioned way like men,and being able to communicate would surely be part of that,no?So if he spoke english,and said the same things to me,he would have probably gotten worse than a pizza face(because I would really have no reason to feel sorry for him then).After the way I "educated" that man he will never lean/hang on a vehicle that does not belong to him again,regardless of the language he speaks.(down here in So Cal if you are around someones vehicle for longer than 30 seconds,it usually means only one thing.THIEF.and I have learned only too much about losing the very tools I make my living with.)It is also not my duty as an electrician doing piece work to worry about educating him either,the piece work gods have made sure we remain highly aggressive in our nature on the job,and language is essential to safety and to communication,and sadly most of the trash these companies hire are illegal and are a threat to my men as well as myself.
I never used to feel the way I now feel,when I was young we lived in the same area I now am in,and my father did everything he could to get us out of here,for the very reasons I am talking about now,I did not see what he saw.We moved to a small little town called Elko in Nevada(I love this place,and will make it back someday. Just like the old west).The illegals I worked with in this area were very respectful and willing to learn,some that I was teaching carpentry to spoke very little english,but were willing to learn,that is all I need to know,we were good friends sharing each others taste in food and music,we had something to teach each other every day,(this is where my knowledge of the more colorful words of spanish came from.)I will never forget the impact those guys had on the way I felt about illegals.,they actually wanted to be american.But things are not this way in So.Cal.sadly,since it is so easy to get here and remain illegal and tax free.I will say not all are like this(but a vast majority are).
I am a fair and forgiving person,that does not take disrespect lightly and I consider it a total lack of respect to my country men if you choose to come here and think you are greater than those who have spilled blood for it by not coming legally and learning the language.
For those who like to remind us about how immigrants settled america.We are well aware of this,however 150 years ago it was legal to float over here ,and try for the best(that does'nt mean people were treated well, just that it was legal)but now it isnt,so I think I feel just about right on the subject.Like Agene said you dont have to give up your background or heritage it is who you are,just like our language is part of us,we are of all people in the world and the language we speak is english,so learn it or be left behind.(my wife cant get a job as a medical assistant in our area because she is not bilingual in spanish).So much for graduating valedictorian only to find out you cant get a job because you only speak english in america. :<!--emo&:)--><!--endemo-->

Edited: Dio The Dark on 5th Mar, 2004 - 11:10am

Immigrants Love Them Hate Them Politics Business Civil & History - Page 2

I bring my religious affiliation every where I go! Sorry, but it I think it is one thing to dislike someone or their actions but to throw pizza in their face is wrong. Because you carry your affilitation with the LDS Church in your profile for all to see, I believe your actions as reflected here also reflect on all who share that affiliation. Had you listed your faith as Born Again Christian, I would have made the same remark. Had it been Atheist, I would have said nothing. I will agree though that the food was better than your fist. I, too have trouble controlling my anger at times, so I know how it happens, but I don't generally brag about it after I have lost control.

Not true. I know of people in this country legally who came here without knowing how to speak any English. However, I will grant you that living in Southern California, like you do, it is probably a good possibility the person was an illegal immigrant. I still don't think violence is acceptable.

Before you go thinking I am a bleeding heart liberal, let me assure you I am not, and I don't go crying to daddy for help either. --> I am capable of taking care of myself, but I choose to do it within the confines of the law.

FYI - I am an honorably discharged US Marine, so I am not a pacifist either!