Close Topic Options

Sports Vs. Sabbath - Page 6

JB, I haven't changed any lines, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning some are using to say they wou'dn't visit this family under these terms. To me, it is like saying we are better than you because we choose not to watch sports on Sunday and if you choose to do so, you are not worthy of our presence. Now I know neither you or AGene have expressed this attitude but that is the feeling I would get if I was an inactive member and I got a visit from church Priesthood leaders who wouldn't come into my home because I was doing something that did not fit their idea of a proper Sabbabth activity. In my opinion, not only would it be ok to visit them under these terms but it would be wrong to not visit them if these are the terms they set. But again, like you said, that's just my opinion.

While serving a mission in Argentina in 1978, the World Soccer Cup was on everybody's minds. Argentina was the host country that year and also ended up being world champions. Nobody wanted to talk to us about anything but futbol. My mission president told us to go out after Sunday School and knock doors and ask people if we could watch the game with them. Since nobody was willing to discuss religion, we met them on their terms in an effort to eventually bring the Gospel into their lives. This was in the days before the consolidated block schedule, so we got out of Sunday School around 11:00 and didn't return for Sacrament meeting until 5:00. Our goal was to meet new friends, watch the game and see if they would attend Sac meeting that evening. This resulted in many new contacts and even some converts.

Tenaheff,

I am not aware of any direction that specifically prohibits watching sports on television on the Sabbath. President Hinckley recently said in conference something to the effect that he is saddened that so many members spend their Sundays watching football on television. In my opinion, the reason this saddens him is because there is sooooo much more that we should be doing. I beleive LDS Forever posted some of these things earlier in the thread. So, it's not so much the sports watching that's the problem, but the things you are not doing because you are watching sports. That's partly why I brought this up in the first place because here I am doing what I'm supposed to be doing on the Sabbath, but yet in order to fulfil this righeous endeavor, it required watching part of a baseball game.

Also, I've noticed some of the biggest critics of sport watching on the Sabbath don't think twice about watching the news, or a sitcom or a movie. I don't see the difference. The same conditions exist. If you are watching television of any kind with the exception of General Conference, you are not doing those things you should be doing.

Sabbath Vs Sports

I fully understand both sides. I agree with lots of things expressed by JB and Agene and other things expressed by Gaucho. One thing I know for sure, we cannot go to a member or non-member house and tell them to turn off the TV! please! let's use our common sense, it is not our place or house to tell others what to do in their own home. Now, it doesn't mean we should actively participate in what they are doing but definetly we should not tell them what to do.
Now, we need to keep in mind that some less active members may be testing our Faith and if they see we fall then they may not trust us as before.
The whole purpose of fellowshipping is caring about our brothers and sisters, no matter what they do or do not, our responsibility is seeking after them, not judge them so if the guy would have ask me if I don't mind to watch the game with him, instead of getting on my horse and tell him that I cannot because is the Sabbath ( a guy who have been inactive for 10 years!) I may choose to say, 'No today thanks, but we just felt we needed to come by and tell you hello'.

Sports Vs. Sabbath Studies Doctrine Mormon

Here you go Tena.
"Hold Fast to the Iron Rod" President Spencer W. Kimball Saturday morning session September 30, 1978
I again would urge upon all Saints everywhere a more strict observance of the Sabbath day. The Lord's holy day is fast losing its sacred significance throughout the world, at least our world. More and more, man destroys the Sabbath's sacred purposes in pursuit of wealth, pleasure, recreation, and the worship of false and material gods. We continue to urge all Saints and God-fearing people everywhere to observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Businesses will not be open on the Sabbath if they are not patronized on that holy day. The same is true of resorts, sporting events, and recreation areas of all kinds. Pursuit of the almighty dollar is winning, it seems, over the Lord's commandment, "Keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary" (Lev. 19:30).

Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy Ensign, May 1971, 4 By Elder Ezra Taft Benson
of the Council of the Twelve (13th President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 10 November 1985 -May 30, 1994)
As Latter-day Saints, we accept Sunday as the Christian Sabbath and proclaim its sanctity. We believe that in this dispensation of the fulness of times the law of the Sabbath has been revealed and reaffirmed unto the Church.
"And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;
"For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;
The purpose of the Sabbath is for spiritual uplift, for a renewal of our covenants, for worship, for rest, for prayer. It is for the purpose of feeding the spirit, that we may keep ourselves unspotted from the world by obeying God's command.
"The Lord's plan is perfect," said Elder Orson F. Whitney; "his commandments have in view the salvation of the body as well as the spirit, for it is the soul that will be redeemed from the grave and glorified. God has commanded us to care for the spirit, as well as for the body, and give it food in due season, and He set aside the Sabbath day that man might rest from his temporal labors and go to the house of the Lord and be fed with that holy influence which nourishes the spirit of man. That is why we meet together on the Sabbath day. Our spirits need their food, the same as do our bodies and if we neglect them, they will starve and dwindle and die upon the same principle that the body will die when deprived of its proper nourishment." ("The Day of Rest," Liahona-The Elders" Journal, vol. 7, p. 530.)

Resolutions Joe J. Christensen, Of the Presidency of the Seventy, Ensign, Dec. 1994, 62
Temptations to break the Sabbath are greater now than they used to be. Television is a challenge. I enjoy just about any athletic event, no matter who is playing whom. Some of the best games are televised on Sunday, and the temptation is great. Yet we simply cannot afford to be like those who justify regularly spending hours on Sunday in front of the tube watching sports-the plays, replays, and almost endless postgame commentary-or other shows that are anything but spiritually uplifting.

Guide to the Scriptures Sabbath Day
God rested on the seventh day, Gen. 2: 1-3. The children of Israel did not gather manna on the sabbath, Ex. 16: 22-30. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy, Ex. 20: 8-11 (Mosiah 13: 16-19). The sabbath was given as a sign between God and man, Ex. 31: 12-17 (Ezek. 20: 12, 20). We should not buy or sell on the sabbath, Neh. 10: 31. Call the sabbath a delight, honoring the Lord and not finding thine own pleasure, Isa. 58: 13-14. The sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath, Mark 2: 23-28. The Son of man is Lord of the sabbath, Luke 6: 1-10. Jesus taught in a synagogue and healed on the sabbath, Luke 13: 10-14. The Nephites kept the sabbath day holy, Jarom 1: 5. Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, Mosiah 18: 23. Offer up thy sacraments on my holy day, D&C 59: 9-13. The inhabitants of Zion are to observe the sabbath day, D&C 68: 29. I, God, rested on the seventh day from all my work, Moses 3: 1-3 (Gen. 2: 1-3; Abr. 5: 1-3)

President Thomas S. Monson First Counselor in the First Presidency
"The Sustaining of Church Officers," Ensign, May 2004, 24
It is proposed that we sustain the counselors in the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators.

D&C 1: 38. What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

Guide To The Scriptures; Prophet: See also President; Prophecy, Prophesy, Revelation, Seer.
A person who has been called by and speaks for God. As a messenger of God, a prophet receives commandments, prophecies, and revelations from God. His responsibility is to make known God's will and true character to mankind and to show the meaning of his dealings with them. A prophet denounces sin and foretells its consequences. He is a preacher of righteousness. On occasion, prophets may be inspired to foretell the future for the benefit of mankind. His primary responsibility, however, is to bear witness of Christ. The President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's prophet on earth today. Members of the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators.

Tena, to me if it is The President of the Church, a member of the First Presidency or one of the Twelve Apostles, it is the word of God. Also any thing that is said in Conference is the word of God, for I know that all of the speakers are filled with the Spirit. Also would the Lord's living Prophet allow untrue doctrine to be published in the Ensign or in anything published, and/or endorsed by the Church? Such as talks at BYU, Institute, Firesides, etc.?

Page 6 Sabbath Vs Sports

Agene, thank you for taking the time to post those quotes. I read them. Not one tells me specifically that

sports on television absolutely breaks the sabbath. The point is that we all must make these decisions for ourselves after listening and reading the counsel of our church leaders.

Please note my quote about who says what and when it becomes doctrine referred to a member of the Seventy. A general authority yes, but not a member of the quorum of the 12 and not, therefore a prophet, seer or revelator.

We must remember that doctrine is not the same as counsel or recommendation or urging. Doctrine is quite different. We are all left to make up our own minds for a reason. We are not commanded in all things for a reason.

Finally, a very good point that gaucho has made is that the Savior was quite negatively disposed towards the pharisees? Why? Because they were so focussed on the letter of the law rather than the spirit of it. They were concerned about things like how many steps they could take on the Sabbath without breaking it?

We will just need to disagree on this one, because so far I haven't seen anything that tells me categorically that watching televised sporting events clearly breaks the Sabbath. I will admit it isn't the best way to spend the day, but I do not think it is any worse than watching the news or the latest episode of Star Trek. Both can drive the spirit from you and both take you away from doing other more righteous activities.

Sabbath Vs Sports

I have to breathe a sigh here... do we need to be commanded in all things? Why is something only correct if it was once said? Remember the ideal of A, B, C to get into the Kingdom? Sabbath observance is one of those things that you can almost do without and still get a recommend (save for partaking sacrament and attending Priesthood meeting). However, we have been told many times that if we turn from the ways of the world then we will be that much blessed (grade A or . So this is what it comes down to... do we want A, B, or C? No one is calling you a sinner if you want 'C', the Brethren are merely saying... 'there is a better way' there is grade A and we have to recognize that they will NEVER teach you to just earn a C, once we come to understand that we will not have to kick against the pricks. Now, to deal with the subject matter. I feel that most of this started when I commented about Gaucho' light minded (in my opinion) statement about how he could watch the game and do the visit at the same time. My point here was not so much about if they sat and watched the game, my point was the attitude behind it. In other words, (and I am not picking on you Gaucho, yeah I know, it seems like I am, its just I cannot make fun about doctrinal topics in the least) it is like saying... now I get to watch the game because 'they choose it, not me' how fortunate. In my mind I would be thinking... darn, that game is such a distraction, we need to come up with unique ways to avoid it for the next visit. Maybe arrange a different day, etc.

Sports Vs. Sabbath

No. We don't need to be commanded in all things. That actually is what I am trying to say. Because we are not commanded in all things, it is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate and what is not. That is why I say that we have not established beyond any question that it breaks the sabbath to watch sports on TV.

This doesn't mean that we should watch it. I am just saying that when discussing whether or not Gaucho should have watched that game, we shouldn't take the position that he broke the sabbath by doing so. To me, he broke the sabbath by doing so if he had decided beforehand that it is inappropriate to watch sports on the sabbath. If that is a decision he made about what he considers to be acceptable to do on the sabbath, then he should stick with it. If not, we cannot say he broke the sabbath. We can say, we wouldn't have done so because it is something we choose not to do as we observe the sabbath and why.

I agree that Gaucho's statement did seem to be a bit lightminded. Of course, it could have been his attempt at making some humor, but I agree that we are better off not discussing doctrinal topics unless we want to do so with a seriousness of mind because not only have endowed members covenanted not to be lightminded, but also because we could very well be misunderstood.

Edited: tenaheff on 21st May, 2004 - 11:43am

Sports Vs. Sabbath - Page 6

Maybe everyone is talking about this from different angles, but this is EXACTLY my point. I am NOT talking about what initially happened, I am talking about what he said COULD happen the next time he went there... sit and watch the game. It was the attitude of 'this is okay' is what caused me to question it in the first place.

I am glad that you do, because I have seen attempts at this in the past (not by you) by others and it has always ended in a sorry state of affairs - example: Edward. Hence, it may seem like nit picking, but I take what is 'promoted' here quite seriously since I know not everyone that is watching has a testimony of fire nor well grounded in Church Doctrine sufficiently to discern personal opinion from standard practise.

Sports Vs. Sabbath Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 6

Folks, based on the example Gaucho gave, the first responsibility is to show the less active member some love and care, whether he was watching a game, washing his car or anything of that kind, it doesn't matter. I remember reading a story of a guy who was a less active member for years. He smoke and drink, swear, anything you can imagine. He had a wonderful Home Teacher who would come every Sunday afternoon to see how he was doing and invite him to Church. He never told him why he was drinking a beer or why he was washing his car on the Sabbath, the only thing the guy did was to smile, be pleasant and invite him to Church. For months this home teacher did the same thing over and over and over....and you can well imagine the end of this story.
We are not here to judge anybody and we are not here to be so limited about our beliefs like "Is it written?" "Is it doctrine"?. Do we really need to think this way?. We are missing so much when we try to rationalize what God has commanded us to do. To care about the sick and afflicted and help each other in the best of our abilities. So really whether Gaucho thinks or not that he broke the Sabbath doesn't make a difference to me, because this is a personal choice and we are nobody to judge that. I personally said I would handle it differently, but this again is my personal choice.