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Mormons & Sabbath Day: Working On Sunday? - Page 2

Hmmm...somehow I don't think you understand what I am trying to say. Well, I said it the best I know how. The doctrinal quotes that you say I didn't supply were the links to the scriptures that I had in my above posting. Just follow those links and read the scriptures. You'll see that the Lord only gives the command to the inhabitants of Zion. But I'm beginning to think that this is not good enough for you. The scriptures themselves is not good enough for you. You need one of the prophets to spell it out for you and say something like, "Sabbath-day worship is only a commandment for those saints living in the land of Zion. Saints living anywhere else have no such commandment." Unless you read this, you won't believe and it doesn't seem that you will verify my words by reading the scriptures themselves and coming to your own conclusions. My guess is that you don't trust your own judgment or the gift of the Holy Ghost that you were given to come to correct conclusions. The Holy Ghost will show us all things that we should do, says Nephi. But, if we don't rely upon the Holy Ghost, we must rely upon someone else to tell us how we should think. We are free to do this, but this is dangerous and is, in actuality, the real close-mindedness that you speak of because it doesn't allow our minds and souls to be taught by the Spirit as He opens up the scriptures to our understanding.

Sunday Working Day Sabbath and Mormons

Although 'technically' you may be right about who is 'specially' directed this scripture, it doesn't mean is not 'applied' to us, with that sense we will not use no scriptures whatsoever because all the commandments and revelations were given to different people in different periods of time. Sorry but it doesn't make any sense.

You mean the latter-day saint revelation about Keeping the Sabbath Day Holy comes from there and is just an assurance of what have been writing in the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 but again, I'm not sure as yet (as I just started reading your posts) whether you think the Ten Commandments are applicable to us or to the people at the time of Moses.

I never heard the statement of 'best you can'. I did hear: 'Keep the Sabbath Day Holy'. Period. Although I know we are far from keeping it really Holy, I never heard such statement so I must assume is your own interpretation. I'm not sure your current Church status but to be honest it would be interesting seeing you giving a talk in Church and telling the brethren not to bother to keep the Sabbath Day Holy because really it was meant for the inhabitants of Zion. This is definetly your OWN interpretation that uses technicalities rather than common sense.

You don't have to be so personal in your posts. I think you have no right to tell anybody here, what they trust and what they don't....more when we are talking about issues concerning our spirituality. So I would seriously suggest you if you wanna 'survive' here to come down from the pedestal and put down the finger that tells people what they do right or wrong. You see, this is a healthy and friendly forum where we can discuss hot issues like this one WITHOUT turning personal. The only reason I'm making this issue personal now is because of some of the posts you have putted here. Nevertheless, it would be the last time I would speak about this issue.

Edited: LDS_forever on 27th Mar, 2004 - 2:44am

Mormons & Sabbath Day: Working On Sunday? Studies Doctrine Mormon

What am I a dog? The horse you ride on here may be too large for you, but for your own sake on this forum I will not reply to this as LDS has brought up my exact points.

Page 2 Sunday Working Day Sabbath and Mormons

I'm sorry if I've offended either of you two. I didn't realize that begining my paragraph with "I'm beginning to think" or "My guess is that" were attacking words. I was explaining my perceptions of how you were responding to my posts. I don't know you from Adam, but based upon your posts this is the perception I was/am getting. You can say that I am wrong in my assessment, but I didn't expect you to take my words as an attack. At any rate, I apologize for ruffling both your feathers.

LDS_forever, all scripture is useful to some extent, and much of it can be applicable to our lives, to educate us, etc., but not all scripture is binding upon us. The commandments given to the Israelites under the law of Moses, for example, are not commandments binding upon us. Only those commandments that are specifically directed to the Latter-day Saints are binding. And we find the body of these laws in the Doctrine and Covenants, or the Book of Commandments as the Lord calls it in section one.

The Ten Commandments of course are applicable to us. In fact, they are part of the law of the gospel and not just the law of Moses. And we are to live the law of the gospel as found in the scriptures we've been given by the Lord.

Why would I tell someone not to keep the Sabbath day holy? Are we to be commanded in all things? Do we need to wait for the Lord to command us to live this law before we live it and receive the blessings associated with it? Must we wait for the prophet to command us before we create United Orders and make a Zion society?

I am using common sense. All scripture must harmonize. Therefore, what the prophets say must also harmonize with what is written, since we are judged out of the books that are written and not by what is said. Or do you believe that the prophets have no need to harmonize their words with the canonized scriptures?

I'll give you an example. The word of wisdom, as written in the revelation, was giving by way of wisdom, not by constraint or commandment. 18 years later Brigham Young called upon the assembled saints to vote to make it a commandment and binding upon the saints. They did and now it's binding. The Sabbath day commandment, as written in the revelation, was given only to the inhabitants of Zion, not to the stakes. When did we vote to make this a commandment binding upon the stakes? To my knowledge, this was never done. Therefore, the revelation stands as it was written.

If you can enlighten me as to when and in what manner D&C 59 was made binding upon the stakes of Zion, I'd appreciate it.

Sunday Working Day Sabbath and Mormons

You surprise me, for such a person that wants to 'command' grammar and language yet you do not see where this is a statement of analysis... The scriptures themselves is not good enough for you. You need one of the prophets to spell it out for you and say something like, "Sabbath-day worship is only a commandment for those saints living in the land of Zion. You have no right to say what 'is' and what 'I need'. You have already handed in the prescription and made your judgement, enough said on that, just do not let it happen again. As for my personal opinion on your view on 'keeping' the Sabbath... for me it is ripe with confusion and I wonder to whom in Church you share this with - again, you still have not introduced yourself, I suggest you take up my invitation to post in the Testimony thread.

Mormons & Sabbath Day: Working On Sunday?

"The Church accepts the Sabbath as a law unto man from the beginning. Early in the Bible we read that "God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Gen. 2:3.)

Later, when Moses was leading the exodus in the wilderness, the Lord instructed the Israelites on how to preserve the heaven-sent manna over the Sabbath day.

""¦ the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." (Ex. 16:29.)

Then, with the binding authority of the decalogue, the Sabbath law was made unmistakably clear.

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

"But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." (Ex. 20:8-11.)

As Latter-day Saints, we accept Sunday as the Christian Sabbath and proclaim its sanctity. We believe that in this dispensation of the fulness of times the law of the Sabbath has been revealed and reaffirmed unto the Church.

"And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;

"For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;

"Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;

"But remember that on this, the Lord's day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.

"And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full." (D&C 59:9-13.)

By direct revelation authority, the Church teaches that Sunday is the acceptable day for Sabbath observance as the Lord's day. President Joseph Fielding Smith, commenting on the Lord's day, said: "The Lord's day was, of course, Sunday, and on this day the Latter-day Saints have been commanded to observe the weekly Sabbath. So far as the Latter-day Saints are concerned, the Lord has spoken. This settles the question." (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 2, p. 59.)

https://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Mag...0day%20holy.htm

Edited: LDS_forever on 28th Mar, 2004 - 7:32pm

Mormons & Sabbath Day Working Sunday - Page 2

These are good scriptures, you've quoted, LDS_forever. Sabbath day observance is, indeed, a law, or in other words, a principle of the gospel. But not every law (or principle) is a commandment, or a binding principle with condemnations associated with it.

To illustrate, let's take the Word of Wisdom. The Word of Wisdom is a law of the gospel, or a gospel principle, yet, when it was first given, it was given not by way of commandment or constraint, but by the word of wisdom. We were not, at first, commanded to live it, we were simply given the law of health, or a part of it, at least, and then we were encouraged to live it in order to reap the blessings. It was not a binding principle with condemnations associated with it. Later, President Young, decided to ask the saints to make it a commandment. Using the law of common consent the saints voted to bind themselves to this law or principle, and so the Word of Wisdom suddenly became a binding principle with condemnations associated with not living it. Prior to that time, you could attend the temple without living the Word of Wisdom. After that, the prophets made it so that you couldn't.

A lot of people think that the Lord made the Word of Wisdom a commandment. He didn't. The people, the saints at that time, voted to make it a commandment. Had they voted in the negative when Brigham Young asked for a vote to make it a commandment, it would still be a law given by way of wisdom and not by way of commandment or constraint and we would be able to drink our coffee and attend the temple to this very day.

As for the decalogue, it was binding to the ancient Israelites, but it is not binding to the Latter-day Saints. It is a law or principle of the gospel, but not a binding one upon us Latter-day Saints. Our decalogue comes from the Doctrine and Covenants, the revealed word of the Lord in our day and dispensation. The law is found in section 42 and other places. If the old decalogue were, indeed, binding upon the Latter-day Saints, we'd be worshipping on Saturday.

The same goes for the Nephite practice. They worshipped on Saturday, but that was because they were bound by the decalogue, or the law of Moses.

In this dispensation, all previous gospel laws are given again, but they are given anew, and our instructions come specifically from the new revelations: the Doctrine and Covenants. Thus, according to section 59, we now worship on Sunday. This is the law to which we look, not to the decalogue. It doesn't matter what was said in the decalogue, sections 42 and 59 are the laws of this dispensation.

All scripture must harmonize, nothing can contradict. President Smith was correct when he said:

The Latter-day Saints have been commanded to observe the weekly Sabbath, the Latter-day Saints in Zion, that is. The other Latter-day Saints have not been commanded, but it is still a law and a principle of the gospel of Jesus Christ, in the same way that the Word of Wisdom was a law and a principle of the gospel when it was first given, but not a commandment binding up us.

The law of common consent always applies. To my knowledge, we have never voted to make the principles found in section 59 a binding commandment upon all the Latter-day Saints, even those found in the stakes of Zion, therefore, it is not binding upon these saints, but it is still a principle of the gospel and is preached as such and that we ought to live it, as best we can.

Any law which is not binding is to be lived as best we can, thus we have the Word of Wisdom adapted to the weakest of the saints (at the first.) But the law of chastity has no such provision. You must live the entire law completely, no exceptions. The law of the Sabbath is the same. Working on Sunday is allowed, but discouraged. Worshipping on a day other than Sunday is allowed in certain countries. If this were a commandment to the stakes, there would be no exceptions. Currently, the Word of Wisdom is a binding commandment upon all of us, no exceptions. It is no longer adapted to the weakest of the saints, all must be strong and live it or forget about ever going to the temple.

If you still don't understand what I'm saying, I don't know that I can explain it any better than I have. You may want to check out my thread about official LDS doctrine and read through those articles, looking up the references. Then go and research the law of common consent. Perhaps, after going through these things, you will understand what I'm saying.

Mormons & Sabbath Day Working Sunday Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

I finally see what you are trying to say now that you have said it with proper explanation and in a manner that shows your point. There is something important that I learned long ago, it is one thing to have knowledge but is definitely another to teach knowledge.

The following examples may seem to be off topic, but they are not, they are merely used to illustrate thoughts on keeping the Sabbath.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Somewhere else on this board I spoke about an A, B, C basis for entering the Lord's Kingdom. This falls in line with that. It also falls in line with many of the view points here already expressed. For instance... to receive one's endowment you must live the Word of Wisdom by abstaining from certain things (omission), let's refer to that as 'C', but since drinking a Coke and eatting loads of choclolate does not fall in there you can still get in the Temple if you drank it (Coke) all day long and lived on chocolate. If someone chooses to abstain from these things - good for them, an 'A', but but it is not a requirement. The same way we will not be asked if we have kept the Sabbath Holy, BUT that does not mean we shouldn't. It is interesting to note, the recommend interview questions are centered on the Priesthood holder because it ask if they starive to attend sacrament and priesthood meetings, which in a way would require the person to attend Church on the Sabbath.

However, a good point comes up here... let us take the same example of the Word of Wisdom, who is to say that the Word of Wisdom is just what we should avoid? Shouldn't we be asked questions like... 'do you eat meat sparingly', 'do you live healthy using the fruit and herb of the ground'?

We follow the interpretation of the current Prophet.