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Levels Of Spirituality - Page 5

In thinking forward 10 years in the future I can't help looking back over the past 10 years. I have had a lot of fluctuation in my level of spirituality. I have also had a lot of spiritual growth. I think this is true for most of us. I find that when I am focused on my own spirituality and striving to improve I do not have the time nor inclination to worry about anyone else's. One of my favorite speakers is Joe Christensen. He gave an excellent address on increasing our spirituality. I won't quote the entire talk, but just the 10 points, though the entire talk is well worth the read:

Edited: alskann on 18th Jun, 2008 - 7:22am

Spirituality Levels

I think most of us can say the same thing. I think our spirituality goes through stages. Nevertheless, it is entirely a personal thing. I believe that what it works for me may not necessarily work for another person.

Levels Of Spirituality Studies Doctrine Mormon

I was thinking the other day how most members of the Church have the idea that if you are sitting down in Church every Sunday, you're somewhat more "spiritual" than someone who doesn't. Why do we connect sitting down in a meeting or Church activity to spirituality?

Page 5 Spirituality Levels

What a great thread! There are lots of cool threads on this forum! I read through the entire thread and had thoughts about various posts. I lumped them all into one post, so it ended up being very long. It may be better a bathroom reading. But I wanted to include it all.

It is interesting isn't it. Although you are correct, there is a personal progression that enables a person to , out perform?!?, an other individual in spiritual tasks. Each of us is on a different level of progression. Although we tend to think the leadership is the most spiritual, as would likely be true in earthly organizations, they are not always. There are many members who would easily qualify to lead this church as the prophet or an apostle, but they are given other callings and missions. The bishop is not the most spiritually tuned person in a ward. Often times, bishops and leaders feel the need to stay with the protocols and procedures rather than follow the spirit which tells them differently. This creates a difficult inner conflict that nearly all higher leaders eventually must reconcile. The point is we are all growing and progressing, and the position does not declare the level of progression.

Unfortunately, everything happens. Some are called with a VERY strong witness, some are called because someone has to do it and some are called because of friendship or relationship. There was a joke going around about the apostles saying they were called by revelation which meant 33% perspiration, 33% relation, and 33% inspiration.

I have seen this too"¦

This makes me remember that their are even degrees or levels in the kingdoms. Why would it be any different in the church?

Bravo for saying this!

Wow, that has been what I have seen too"¦ I have seen that usually those who are "letter of the law" think you are off your rocker in a bad way. Not stable or eccentric in a non-positive way, based on the worlds standards of normal.

WOW! YES! YES! AMEN! I couldn't have said this better! Thank you! and Great post! I was visiting a single adult ward last week and the doctrine teacher told the class that it was unlikely that anyone in the room would ever see an angel or have any experiences like we read of in the scriptures. I was surprised to hear this taught without a single question. I was there to observe and did not feel inspired to correct what was being taught. Later, I was about to make a comment on another topic and the teacher nervously stopped me expressing concern that what I was about to say might be too deep for the class. This he did before hearing what I was going to say and a moment later he nervously recanted and allowed me to comment. I thought for a moment I was in an investigator class. Funny thing is, I would have made the same comment regarding following the Holy Ghost to investigators who would have eaten it up.

Yep. Testimony of a prophet (experience) or mysteries revealed and it is discarded like yesterdays trash. Also, great comment about people praying and doing other things but not being charitable referring to Alma 34:28-29. When people focus on living the law, they tend to forget that the law is a guide to helping them become loving. They will say things like the young rich man did to Christ, "I obey the law, what more do I HAVE TO DO to be perfect?" Christ told him to sell all he had and give it to the poor and he would be perfect. We don't realize the Christ was telling that man he could be perfect in this life. He just lacked one thing, love. And the law can't produce love in use no matter how well we live it. With love, we obey the spirit of the law every wit. The entire purpose of the law was to protect the people in a society without love. In a society of people endowed with love, no laws are needed, so the laws with their external punishments are removed.

I hear this very often in regard to Calling and election made sure. They say, "I don't want that blessing because I would be accountable to more, maybe too much. The truth sets us free, and they are saying I don't want more truth, I don't want to be free.

I would change a few minor things, first would be #3 Terrestial Kingdom - most of the world. According to the my understanding of the Terrestial, it consists of those who have a testimony of Christ but who are not members of the church of the Firstborn. D&C 76:70-74 Those of the Church of the firstborn are all Celestial, they have received their calling and election made sure. Those who have joined the church but have not yet had their calling and election made sure are like unto those who gain a testimony after this life and do not go further with it. There is no criteria for being in the Telestial or lowest kingdom, (not considering outerdarkness). The Criteria for the Terrestrial kingdom is a testimony of Jesus Christ. D&C 76:70-74 Many have such a testimony both in and out of our church, and so when the earth enters the millennium which is a Terrestrial state, there will be non-members there too. For LDS, baptism is the outward expression of the inward conviction or testimony of Christ. And all LDS are not Firstborn which happens with C&E made sure and qualifies us for the Celestial Kingdom. So, I would make it the following:
2. Telestial Kingdom - The world in which we now live after Adams fall from the garden of eden which was a higher Terrestial world.
3. Terrestrial Kingdom - Members of the Church - Baptized, fulfilling callings, and those with a testyimony of Christ outside the church who will not in this life or the next follow the truth to the Fulness God has provided.
4. Those who have experienced the Baptism of Fire, the Mighty Change of Heart to become sons and daughters of Jesus Christ
5. Celestial Kingdom - Those who have had their Callings and Elections Made Sure thus becoming members of the Church of the Firstborn and heirs of exaltation- D&C 76:51-54
I was also surprised that you had levels of spiritual progression beyond the calling and election made sure. Most of the time we think, that's the end, get the promise. But there is so much more beyond that. Some get the promise and stop there just as some join the church and stop. Some accept callings and become angles to men like the 3 Nephites you mentioned. This would fit under the Isaiah Decoded: Ascending the ladder to Heaven list under Angelic Emissaries, and then of course becoming A God as expressed in the last entry of that same list.

Spirituality Levels

I hope the ratio is that high. I think it might be closer to 1:100. I know I haven't yet received it. Nighthawk"

Part of the great change in heart is that we become more tolerant of others failings. Just as Christ did not condemn others we understand the "love of God" and become like God in that love. Just as Christ no longer holds others accountable to the punishments of the law, we too try to protect even the humble guilty, just as Christ died for the humble guilty, not the prideful innocent. Then we no longer live under the law of eye for an eye. Thank goodness God is not fair or we would all get what we deserved.

You left out LOVE. If God is love, then we might do well to measure ourselves against the Love of God which is the tree of eternal life to determine how much like God we really are.
Dubhdara, I really liked your posts. They were not the norm and had great content. I think you are correct that obedience is not the only measuring stick. In light of the topic, our relationship to God can be measured. I have found 3 levels or relationships to God that we can have. They are:

Servant - Focus entirely on obedience to the unquestioned authority of God, fear of God the great and terrible, etc. God is viewed as a Master. Obedience is the theme.

Son - Focus on learning to be like God whom we love. Learning why God does what God does. Trying to be like God with the motivations of God. Love is the theme.

Friend - Focus on individual conviction. Reason with God, disagreement with God is ok and expected. Persuade God or be persuaded by God. Equality with God not being subject to God. This relationship cannot be obtained until your calling and election is made sure and a pure heart and greater love comes before that. Complete Freedom and Equality is the theme, even equality with God.

***Topic moved to judging others***

Two thoughts"¦ 1) We will be judged according to how we judge other. So if you want a free ticket to the CK judge everyone as innocent, learning and progressing. 2) In the case above, our attention could be more well focused on our own lack. For example, "I am not capable of answering your question without challenging your testimony. Try asking soandso"¦." (which would be much better than them NOT getting answers from members who are protecting their testimonies and being overwhelmed by answers from anti-mormons trying to destroy their testimonies"¦ My point is that if we can't or don't want to help others, we should judge ourselves as needing improvement before judging others for needing the help. For example:

Not helping the poor:
1) They created their own situation, they could get a job, their just lazy.
2) I don't know how to trust in the Lord to provide for all my needs and enough to spare for the poor. I"m just faithless or not capable of making more money.

Not going to Church:
1) They know better than to miss church. They just don't care. They don't have a strong testimony.
2) I haven't taken the time to share my testimony with them. I don't care enough to stop by and share the love they need to feel wanted. I am not doing something or they would be coming to church with me.

The focus being our ability to change the situation. God doesn't worry about what isn't happening the way God wants. God worries about what God can DO to change what is happening. And by focusing on our own faults we will find there is always something we can do.

Another thing to remember is that, "The past does not equal the future." Change is imminent!

, people judge my wife and I when we do not show up in church for months at a time. We have even be labeled as inactive by those who don't know what we are doing. What they don't know is that we often serve mini-missions. We travel about 40% to 70% of the year dedicating our time to service and teaching others the Gospel and Progressing the Saints. That is what the Lord called us to do, but it keeps us from our home ward a lot. There is no point in moving our records because we rarely stay more than a month in one place and we always return to our home in Nevada. At one point we lived in a travel trailer for I think 8 months straight. You never know what is keeping others from living what you think is a perfect life. And while we are away serving, we often find that come Sunday we are engaged in activities which are overall more beneficial to ourselves and others, (and unfortunately often more uplifting), than attending church meetings. When this is the case, we don't think twice about missing church meetings. Fortunately for us we are no longer concerned with our own salvation or standing with the Lord. This allows us to focus our attention on assisting others... We consider ourselves as spiritually advancing even though we do not attend church every week.

The reason people connect attendance with spirituality is because we think that church attendance is required for spirituality. We think that the church is the only means of spiritual growth and the more we go, the more spiritual we become as if by osmosis. However, as stated before, sitting does not imply learning or implementing. Sadly it somehow gives license to the prideful to judge and criticize others. I have even met people who don't go to church because they can't stand the way members talk about each other and those outside the church. They said, "The church is true and the principles are worth learning and the scriptures are worth reading, but I don't want to go to church for fear of becoming like them. You become like those you associate with you know." They may have been right?!? My sister was in Utah ward in a very wealthy area and she said she hated going to church, having visiting teachers and home teachers because everyone was worried about how they measured up with the Jones's. They didn't have the best car or the cleanest house or the other criteria that they were measured against. My Sister and brother-in-law only went to church out of obligation and looked for any opportunity to go to other wards by visiting family etc. When they finally moved to Boston, they rejoiced more because of their new ward than they did for their pay raise.

Edited: Amonhi on 14th Aug, 2008 - 1:29am

Levels Of Spirituality

I have found that what Members with poor peripheral vision label as Spiritual has a lot to do with:

1. What calling you have
2. How friendly you are
3. How charismatic you are
4. How active you are in attending Sunday meetings
5. That you participate in activities
6. And to some degree how 'well off' you are. If you are very poor or in bad circumstances it is usually seen as being that you are just not spiritual enough.

Levels Spirituality - Page 5

Thanks so much for this thread. I have learned from it. I would like to relate an experience I had a few months ago.

I was in the Gospel Doctrine class when I felt a strong impression to relate an experience I had with my dad when I was a youngster. I was very emotional as I attempted to tell the story because well, it was about my dad and Heavenly Fathers unconditional love. The whole class was quiet and you could hear a pin drop. The Spirit of the Lord was among us. Many got emotional and many felt the Holy Ghost testify to them of the Love of God., including myself. This was a special experience for me as well as for many in the class. It was one of those moments. After the class, I walked out and went to Elders quorum. My wife lingered (as she usually does when the RS is getting ready to meet,) and heard many people talking about how powerful the Spirit was in that room. For many, I think it may have been the first time they have experienced such a thing, for some, it was probably more common. However, in one circle, a group of ladies were talking about it and my wife was close enough to overhear the conversation (ease-drop, some would call it. .

3 or 4 of the ladies were heard to say wonderful things about the feelings they had, and my wife was generally glad to hear that, but one lady said something like this: "It was like 10 minutes long and when he got to the end of the story, I was like what? Is that it? That was a total letdown." My wife told me that she felt a strong impression that there are some among us who do not listen to the right spirit. That is a fairly obvious thing, but when the spirit says it, it has so much more impact. When she told me that, I also felt something of a spiritual lesson.

We need to listen to the right spirit; That is the Holy Ghost. In the Church, it is very possible to listen to the wrong spirit and be a member. This is because some allow the adversary to penetrate their minds and hearts when they are not at church. It is indicated by the canker of negativity, meanness, absence of feeling, of action, of testimony, of Love and of reverence. It is also indicated by those who render unrighteous judgment. Pride is the main element. I love the talk called "Beware of Pride" by President Benson. I carry it in my scriptures. I hope that I have learned from it and acted accordingly.

Maybe this is senseless wandering, but I feel very strongly that we as individuals need to start listening to the right spirit more often in the Church (myself included.) We could do so much more for Christ.

Levels Spirituality Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

Maybe for that sister it did not touch her because it wasn't meant to. I don't agree that just because she wasn't touched by your testimony means she was listening to a wrong spirit. There is a lot of stuff that might touch me, but not you, does that mean you are listening to the wrong spirit?