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Levels Of Spirituality - Page 2

JB said:

Yes, I see this a little too frequently. I've even heard someone mocking someone else's very powerful testimony -- she said she didn't bear her testimony often because she got so emotional, and of course she bore a very emotional testimony. It was very quiet, and then someone in the back of the room said something like "it's a good thing she doesn't do that very often" and several other women around her laughed (this was in Relief Society meeting). I felt so awful!! How could they do that?? It breaks my heart on two levels -- for the woman who bore her testimony so sweetly, because she must have felt humiliated; and for the woman who mocked and the others who laughed, because I imagine they will have to face the Lord one day....

In my opinion, of course.
Roz

Spirituality Levels

Now that is sick. A testimony is such a personal thing and for members to make fun of it is the lowest of the low. What are they trying to say... their testimony is somehow better? More eloquent? More in standard? I agree that members can be encouraged to focus on Christ in their testimonies, but we cannot tell someone how emotional they should or shouldn't be. Perhaps those that laugh are already past feeling... which brings me to my next point. The point where you just do not care is to me very prevalent in the Church, you tell a Brother the importance of a certain principle or commandment and they shrug it off as just 'talk'. Excuses are abundant, everything else seems more important than the work of the Lord, there is no zeal to accomplish the service necessary to save. Members need to understand that no matter how much they pray and pay tithes it does nothing for them if they do not serve the poor and needy. In the following verse Amulek was telling us what to pray for and how to pray, but then he adds...

Alma 34:28
28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need-I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.
Alma 34:29
29 Therefore, if ye do not remember to be charitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men.

This Church should have the most charitable people ever, but not so at times, you are blessed if your ward is like that, and I know there are places where all the people come together to help one another (truly Zion).

Levels Of Spirituality Studies Doctrine Mormon

I'm delighted in reading all the responses so far. Nighthawlk gave some excellent remarks concerning the Saints in the old times and how the Lord wants to experience some of the blessings and things they experience in our daily lives.
Farseer and JB also gave great remarks about how the Saints perceive things and it made me think about Jacob in the Book of Mormon (it was our lesson today in Sunday School) and how he talks about pride and sometimes observing the people they think they're talking about somebody else, we do not look into ourselves and see how much we are really sinning when we have pride and think we know more than anybody else.

This is so true and so common in the Church here. I will never forget visiting this sister who had cancer, she was extremelly sick on bed suffering all kind of pains, she was also the only member in her family. She did not have home teachers (actually she did but they never visited her) when I approach one of the home teachers to ask him to please visit her because she really needed a blessing (I explained the whole situation) he said no problem, later on I found out he didn't go to this sister's home until the next day 'because he was very busy working'. I was extremelly angry and upset, even more now because the person holds a position in the District, I know it is not more for me to judge, but this sister died in a very sad way....she knew she was dying and she was asking Heavenly Father to take her with him because she could not bear the pain. My companion and I would go and just talked to her, help her to bathe and so on and when you're asking a Priesthood holder to just give a little blessing to that sister in distress and they turn the back to it! I just cannot understand it *shaking head*, it makes me angry and sad at the same time....sorry if I was carry away with all this but I just wanted to say that 'words' are not enough, 'callings' are not enough but our families, helping the needy, doing the things that needed to be done!!!! talk is talk! nothing more.

Page 2 Spirituality Levels

Our Gospel Doctrine teacher was talking today about "levels of knowledge" and the responsibility that comes with that. That some folks don't go to the next level because they don't want the committment that necessarily goes with it. One of the class members pointed out that it is an issue of the "natural man" who avoids committment -- until adequately prepared spiritually, the natural man cannot commit to higher knowledge.

I thought that was interesting.

Roz

Spirituality Levels

I am going to take this discussion on levels of spirituality into a different direction.

I have two lists of spiritual levels, from two different types of sources.

The first is Spiritual Progression in the Last Days. I have talked about this before, and even shown the list before. Here it is again.

1. Enemy to God
2. Stranger and Foreigner
3. Fellow citizen with the Saints
4. Servent or handmaiden of God
5. Son or daughter of Jesus Christ
6. Elect of God
7. Joint heir with Jesus Christ

The second source is the book Isaiah Decoded: Ascending the Ladder to Heaven, by Avraham Gileadi. (I'll use the same general order)

1. The King of Assyria/Babylon - Perdition
2. Babylon - The Wicked of the World
3. Jacob/Israel - Believers in a Creator-God
4. Zion/Jerusalem - God's Covenant People
5. Sons and Daughters - Servants of God
6. Seraphim - Angelic Emissaries
7. The God of Israel - King of Zion

You may notice a few similarities between these lists.

What is particularly relevant, in my opinion, is the fact that #4 on both lists is essentially the same thing. That is, #4 is members of the Church. When I look at the whole list, I see the following:

1. Perdition - those who have rejected the Lord completely, knowingly.
2. Telestial Kingdom
3. Terrestial Kingdom - most of the world
4. Members of the Church - Baptized, fulfilling callings
5. Those who have experienced the Baptism of Fire, the Mighty Change of Heart to become sons and daughters of Jesus Christ
6. Those who have had their Callings and Elections Made Sure
7. Those who have received a direct revelation from the Father bringing them into the Eternities. (Think the Three Nephites, John, Enoch)

As I understand it, we are responsible for our own growth, especially into the higher three levels. The sad thing is that most of us are content at level 4.

Levels Of Spirituality

Today I was taking the results of home teaching for the last month (no this is not about home teaching). None of the leaders did theirs for two months then they get up and say what we ought to do, and they do it (tell us what to do) with such straight face! I am amazed, how can people have no shame? If I did not pay tithes, how could I get up there and say I believe in the Gospel so much or preach redemption? I would not, I would hide! This is a level of spirituality that is not even #4 according to your list Nighthawk. I would also like to echo what Farseer said...

I said something similar today. I asked the quorum why some people do not act on things they know is right... one response is because they do not have the means and can't, my response is that they don't want to! The Lord has given us abilities to serve in any capacity. I also added that attending meetings and participating in classes, etc actually condem us even more if we do nothing about what we hear because now we know.

At the same time I believe members limit themselves so much by not studying the Gospel beyond Sunday School, they fail to learn that the more you strive to know, then the more you find purpose to life, control and more especially - salvation, since man cannot be saved in ignorance.

I have no Counselors and I don't know if I will find any... I was saying to the quorum that I see callings just like a platoon... you want people around that are going to stand with you at crunch time, not people who skip bail, jump over the wall and make every excuse under the sun. I then added that the way I would know the best person to choose would be the person that does their home teaching - not the most well dressed, eloquent, best giver of testimony, etc.

I believe this is the end all... the doers and the speakers... this is the sheep and the goats... you have members that just speak about good things and you have those that are busy doing good things. I find that most of the Church has speakers and a few chosen doers that keep it alive.

I feel you can know your stand or level of spirituality can be judged by the amount of doing and less about how much you know and how well you say what you know. In other word the Mighty Change of Heart that Nighthawk likes to emphasize has happened / happening on a 1:10 ratio within the Church in my opinion, so if there are a 100 members attending CHurch you will find 10 of them really doing things... really doing them, not just the appearance of doing them.

Levels Spirituality - Page 2

I hope the ratio is that high. I think it might be closer to 1:100. I know I haven't yet received it.

Levels Spirituality Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

I hope to be more optimistic than that since as we discussed before... there are the quiet ones whom have no voice, eloquence or great 'political' standing in the Church, yet they shall enter the Kingdom in great glory. In other words, we may be caught up with those who have the appearance of doing good (priestcraft) and figure it is overwhelming the Church, but again... there are the quiet ones, you do not know who they are, but they are working a great work.