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Magic - Magick 101 - Page 3

In my opinion prayers are like spells, and spells are like prayers. I also believe that prayers are a form of magick. Christians pray to their god for what they need. So do Pagans. Some Christians use candles and incense while they are praying. So do Pagans. Some Christians pray for selfish things. So do some Pagans. I believe that Christians use magick to. I am sick of people saying that magick is evil and from some demonic power. Magick is not good or bad. It's what the person dose with it that is good or bad. I believe we all use magick in or every day lives. Some of us just don't know we are doing it.

Spells and karma really have nothing to do with chance or luck.

arthyr, you speak of "power" as if we Pagans are in the movies. Magic in the movies is not the same as real magick in the real world. You speak as if us Pagans have some magical power. We don't. If we Pagans had magical powers like in the movies wouldn't you think our religion would be more poplar.

Hollywood has polluted out minds. Some people don't know how to separate fact from fiction. (I'm not accusing anyone here of that. I'm just stating that as an observation.)

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I see what you are trying to show in comparison to Christians, however, I understand where Arthyr is coming from since in Christianity part of the teachings is worship to any other being, thing or item but the One God is wrong. The Old and New Testament also teaches that spells, magics and deviation of any kind is wrong. This is a basic Christian belief so you should not feel frustrated when a Christian says that.

Another thing I want to point out. As far as I know, of the Christian faiths only or mostly Catholics use candles, prayer beads, etc to worship, it is not actually a common thing to do in Christianity.

Can you elaborate more on that? Ho for instance would I be using magick without knowing it?

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I would add that I have recently learned that the sorcery and witchcraft that is referred to in the Bible may be more oriented towards drug use than "spells".

Especially when considering that spells are (according to practicioners) nothing more than prayers, performed differently than Christian (or Jewish or Muslim) prayers.

Then, we should also consider other non-Christian types of prayer, such as Hindu. Do they have any real power? It appears to me that they do.

Personally, I believe that there is real power within such things as tai chi, to develop personal chi, which I see as a manifestation of the personal spiritual power - especially when considered as a healing power. Would this be considered magick? Probably.

However, I think that it is entirely possible to approach any of these things with an eye single to the glory of God, and learn how they relate to Him, and learn what He wants done with them for the good of His children.

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Interesting things to bring up Nighthawk. Let me tackle them in the following:

1. I believe that regardless of God's supreme Oneness and Truth that many have different ways of communicating with him.

2. It is not their technique (spells, candles, etc.), but their belief that sends the message. This does not mean their is not a better technique or correct technique, it is just theirs, it may be less effective to someone else, but it will work - again because of the system of belief.

3. When Truth is learnt then it is up to a person to move on to that greater Truth. For instance, if a person is happy with only a primary education then they only limit themselves. I bring this up because you mentioned Hinduism. In this religion of which their are many followers in my country I can tell you that they do perform ceremonies that may appear to a non-Hindu as magic. Again it is their way, it is how they feel God hears them, until their is greater Truth learnt and accepted who am I to judge it. However, I feel this is different from accepting it. In other words because a Hindu or Wiccan or Pagan does something a certain way does not mean a Christian has to apply it or that the Hindu, Wicca or Pagan should be irritated, angry or confrontational if they disagree. This is what I see happening in this thread. The constant mention of Christianity as a similarity to how magic is used I believe is not accurate since Christianity directly opposes such things.

4. As for the translation - were you referring to the one in Revelations? I too have heard of this referring to drugs, but remember and consider this. Part of deviation is also enticing the senses to communicate with the unseen, thus the drugs come in. A popular religion that believes this is the Rasta Farian. Under the use of cannabis they believe that they are communicating with the unseen and being one with God. This can be seen as a form of magic too.

All in my opinion.

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Like I said before I believe that prayers are a form of magick. Have you ever wished for something. Like have you every gone under a bridge with a moving train on it and made a wish, or wished on a star, or crossed your fingers for something to happen, or lighted birthday candles made a wish and blew them out (that is a little spell). Even cleaning ones house or sweeping the floor is concerned a magickal practice to some of us Pagans.

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No, because I believe that falls in the realm of superstition. For me prayers must be an actual belief formed based on my own worthiness to ask for something and God granting me my heart's desire according to what He has in store for me. This is more than a simple wish.

Hence in your statement:

I am now to understand that you are referring to people who see or seek signs from occurences throughout the day?

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This is exactly what I was trying to get across.

Exactly. While I think that there is a "best" way to approach God, I think also that He is willing to listen to any of His children who attempt to approach him, in whatever way they can.

I'm not really sure. I have heard that most of the time when witches or sorcerers were referred to in the Bible, the translations could easily be related to drugs (I think it is most obvious with the New Testament Greek word that is close to pharmeceutical).

Now, having to do with magic, I think that a lot of people do associate drug use with the religious practice of types of magic, such as Rastafarian or Voodoo. Whether this is right or wrong. A few North American Indian religions focus on such things, using peyote, etc. (Are these considered pagan?)

I would like to take the discussion a slightly different direction. For the most part, we have been talking about magick related to pagan (witchcraft) religions, such as "Wicca", but there is also the mystical aspects of Judaism (Kabbalah) and Islam (Sufism). Many of their practices could be considered to be magical.

Again, personally, I think that there are both good and bad elements of power within these mystical traditions. For the most part, though, they are attempts by people to come to a greater understanding of the power of God, and learn how to use that power. Of course, the intent of the person has a lot to do with all of it, whether that intent is selfish or not, etc. Just as others here have pointed out about spellcraft.

I hope this one is a little clearer than my previous post.

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With reference to what you stated after I am tempted to answer this based on my beliefs, but I will not because this board is not LDS. However, in my opinion I have found that most practioners of magics (I am not saying it is meant to be so), no matter which religion, use it to get something 'easier' than they would have to do if it meant their own 'strength'. I know this because I hear of some who refer to doing this or that so that 'x' result would happen. In other words they apply the 'magic' as in an example of getting more money rather than to get a better job. Again to me this is different than if they use it as a communication to God. I do not see the wisdom in any god giving money without some sort of 'work'. Hence the teaching must be based on it. Now with regards to the use of magic in one's life and as you hinted to - as a martial art - I would not call that 'magic' but in fact spiritual enhancement. In other words you may get greater peace of mind from disciplining yourself and your thoughts through the martial art, but that does not mean that it will bring you closer to God. However it may prepare you that when you are ready to communicate in the correct way with God then it will be more 'perfect' than it was before, sort of like creating a better phone line. I think it is important to point out that one cannot gain anything from using a lesser method if one consciously knows of a better way to communicate and request unseen powers to act in your behalf.