Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony?

Did B H Roberts Lose Testimony - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 20th Mar, 2003 - 9:38am

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12th Mar, 2003 - 7:27pm / Post ID: #

Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony?

B. H. Roberts, an experienced man of the Church, wrote many papers concerning doctrine and view points. Some of them almost seem to question the archeological evidences of the Book of Mormon. In one General Conference he spoke about his writings with what seemed to be an apology? or not? This is what he said:

"I hope that if anywhere along the line I have caused any of you to doubt my faith in this work, then let this testimony and my indicated life's work be a correction of it."

Is he saying that he wishes to correct what he said? Or is that he is hoping that his actions correct what he has already written, but not necessarily correct his point of view? What do you know of this man?



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12th Mar, 2003 - 11:38pm / Post ID: #

testimony lose Roberts H B Did

Brigham H Roberts (1857-1933) was a General Authority who took the challenge to study in depht the origins of the Book of Mormon.
Elder Roberts reached this conclusion after his research where he seems to imply  that Joseph Smith borrowed the basic plot and many details from other books to write the Book of Mormon. This evidence - long suppressed because it is considered harmful to the Church - is presented in detail in three essays by Roberts, now published as Studies of the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1992).
More than fifty years after his death, Roberts is still well known through his many writings. They include the - Introduction and Notes - to Joseph Smith's seven volume History of the Church, the six volume A Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Outlines of Ecclesiastical History, and New Witnesses for God (3 vols).
The B. H. Roberts Papers (1869-1965) contains a variety of materials documenting the life and work of Roberts, widely regarded as the foremost LDS Church historian and theologian. Included are personal materials (journals, temple records, notebooks, certificates, and correspondence); correspondence from friends, antagonists, and business associates; correspondence concerned with his research regarding discrepancies in the Book of Mormon; manuscripts of the results of his research ("Book of Mormon Difficulties" and "A Book of Mormon Study"); a sampling of his writings, including publication lists, manuscripts, and speeches; materials concerned with his service during World War I as a chaplain in the U. S. Army; and six books, among which is a photocopy of the 1830 Book of Mormon with a reproduction of Robert's annotations; original editions of the Doctrine of Covenants (1884) and a Methodist camp meeting hymn book (1832). Brigham Henry Roberts (1857-1933) was born in Lancashire, England, to Benjamin and Ann Everington Roberts. He immigrated to Salt Lake City in 1866 and was baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1867. He apprenticed as a blacksmith in Centerville. That trade not being to his liking, his life's work ultimately became devoted to service to the LDS Church. He married three wives in polygamy, and was incarcerated in 1889 during the federal government's crackdown on the practice. He was elected to the U. S. House of Representatives in 1898, but, because of his Mormon background and polygamous marriages, he was forced to give up his seat in 1900.
I know also that he wrote a letter to the First Presidency about his papers and discoveries but he never sent it. It seems he got too many rebukes because of his discoveries and he was deeply dissapointed.



Post Date: 18th Mar, 2003 - 2:12pm / Post ID: #

Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony?
A Friend

Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony? Studies Doctrine Mormon

BH Roberts did not lose his testimony.  Long unseen by LDS scholars and students, a typescript entitled
'The Truth, The Way, The Life' by B. H. Roberts was recently published by BYU Studies.  Roberts worked on this treatise about the plan of salvation mainly in 1927 and 1928, but he was still revising it in 1930, making these pages some of his last words written for publication; he died in 1933.

Because this manuscript has long been known only for its few controversial pages on the creation, it comes as an unexpected bonus to learn that it repeatedly and unequivocally asserts the antiquity of the
Book of Mormon.
In the newly released treatise, Roberts describes the miraculous coming forth of the Book of Mormon in trong, straightforward, traditional terms: "Three years after this first revelation an angel of God named Moroni was sent to the Prophet to reveal the existence of an ancient volume of scripture known as the Book of Mormon, a book which gives an account of the hand-dealings of God with the people whom he brought to the continents of America from what we now call the 'Old World.'

He describes the Jaredites and Nephites as ancient peoples and affirms that "Joseph Smith was commanded to translate, and was given the power and means by which he could translate the unknown langguage of these ancient American peoples."

In marshalling evidence for the premortal existence of
Jesus, Roberts assures his readers that "the preexistent Spirit of the Christ appeared to an ancient prophet among the Jaredite people."  Roberts likewise speaks literally of the words that the resurrected Jesus "said  to the assembled Nephites to whom he appeared on the Western Continent."

Indeed, Roberts believed that "no incident in the gospel history is more emphatically proven than this great truth, the resurrection of the Son of God," and he used as his key witness "the appearance of the risen Redeemer to a multitude of people in America."
He treats many Book of Mormon scriptures as the unique,  authoritative source of revealed knowledge on numerous important  topics, especially on the nature of earth life, opposition in all things, and the atonement of Jesus Christ.  He takes joy in drawing attention to doctrines "derived almost wholly from the teachings of the Book of Mormon."  

To Roberts, the four standard works were "all of equal authority, all of them dependable sources of knowledge."

No, BH Roberts was a seeker after truth, wherever he might find it.  His investigations and questions became public to LDS  and the LDS public became nervous and began questioning his testimony. I'm sure his bishops were constantly 'calling him into their offices'.   This is an old story that I've seen and heard again and again - in attempts to elucidate and/or clarify it often becomes necessary to ask uncomfortable questions or pose uncomfortable answers. Those lucky souls who seem to have little propensity to look outside their fishbowls would naturally resent someone who does - especially such a prolific writer as BH Roberts.

18th Mar, 2003 - 2:25pm / Post ID: #

testimony lose Roberts H B Did

Yes, but after he started saying how Joseph Smith was a storyteller and the Book a Mormon a copy of 4 books that Joseph Smith had available at that time. As most people who started researching about certain LDS topics in depht, eventually they lose the testimony because of the many questions the researchs brings and when there is not a logical answer for them, then the natural man started to create the answers for them and not always is in tune with that the First Presidency states. I don't know much about Elder Roberts, I do know he was a really good guy and that he really wanted answers that the First Presidency at the time prefered to not give it to him but rather shut him down. And that's the sad part.



Post Date: 18th Mar, 2003 - 2:48pm / Post ID: #

Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony?
A Friend

testimony lose Roberts H B Did

More likely than not, the 1st Presidency really had no satisfactory answers for him and wanted him to tone down his rhetoric.  I believe he, like all of us was trying to strengthen his testimony through the research he was conducting.  All the answers never came to him but I really believe his testimony of the Church was intact at the end of his life.
It's been interesting to me that most of the witnesses to the BOM eventually fell away from the Church but never lost their testimony of the BOM.

18th Mar, 2003 - 3:06pm / Post ID: #

Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony?

Yes, actually, there are plenty people in the Church with same concerns, sometimes because of certain leaders that if you ask a question the first thing they say is that you're 'apostatizing' the member feels sad, guilty and without answers to his concerns that are real concerns.  I think is all a matter of understanding and love and remember that the leaders are also humans, they mean well, but not always know how to handle certain situations.



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Post Date: 20th Mar, 2003 - 5:45am / Post ID: #

Did B. H. Roberts lose his testimony?
A Friend

Did B. H. Roberts lose testimony

I think more aptly you're asking where fact ends and faith starts.  I always find it facinating when archeologists find evidences of the people we've been familiar with since Joseph Smith. I find it gratifying to my ego, but it's not really something I base my testimony on. The case with B.H. Roberts is actually fairly normal, but the fact is, there are just some things that cannot be intellectually proven. There is a bishop in our area that has every book dealing with subjects such as these that you could imagine. He's a very intelligent and spiritual guy, but his daughter (my close friend) once told me that the real reason he has such an extensive library is simply because he needs the intellectual aid or reassurance that these things indeed did happen. Some people are just like that. They need to have the intellectual concrete side of things. Bro Roberts didn't have the benefit of time or technology that we do now. Time tends to smooth down rough edges (and there were a lot in his time), technology helps us to find out so much more now than ever, and tomorrow we will know more than we did yesterday...
So while I appreciate scientific theory, I am wary of building a testimony on a few hypothesis.
I mean think about it, Science told us a Brontosaurus was a dinosaur, and now 15 years later we come to find out we had the wrong pieces put together... so much for Littlefoot...
Brother Roberts was a searcher of truth, I don't think he meant any harm. He was a pioneer into the intellectual mind of the latter day saint.

20th Mar, 2003 - 9:38am / Post ID: #

Did B. H. Roberts lose testimony Mormon Doctrine Studies

[quote]They need to have the intellectual concrete side of things. Bro Roberts didn't have the benefit of time or technology that we do now. Time tends to smooth down rough edges (and there were a lot in his time), technology helps us to find out so much more now than ever, and tomorrow we will know more than we did yesterday...
[/quote]
Very good analysis, we appreciate this kind of feedback indeed. Please invite that Bishop you spoke of to the forum, there are those here that like that kind of proof, plus he may be a good contributor to the forum for that kind of thing.



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