Related Information to Post War Iraq

Post War Iraq - Page 2

OK, since you pose this question, rather than go into my "take" on the situation, I recommend a simple historical review of the last 30 years under the Ba'athist Party rule. It is quite well documented.
Also of help would be the testimony of everyone who has managed to flee the country during that time.
Even the opinions of the surround countries in the region, their "Arab Brothers", would prove enlightening.i in answering the question "Was this a benefit to the people of Iraq".

LDS,
Sorry to disagree with you, but I remain singularly unimpressed with Ghandi.
Even the most cursory look at India today will tell you they fared far better under "British Colonialism" than under all the ones who have come since then.

Fireduck,
You are correct. It will take time for the people to build a government. They don't know how or what they want.
They haven't been allowed to think or act for 30 years.

What are you looking for? Get the story over before the nexc commercial? This is real life man, not television.

And, there is no guarantee the exiles will get anything in the government, because they are highly mistrusted at this point.

I would recomment to both you and Annie that you become better informed on all this rather than rely on stereotyped opinions that you probably got from your peers. It might sound good on campus, but all that "Daddy Bush" stuff really has nothing to do with the situation.

It's a sure fire fact that Tony Blair wouldn't risk his political career for "Daddy Bush".

Iraq War Post

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions!
Like I said Sryia is next in line or whoever ticked them off!!!
They are not asking Sryia to give up Saddam if he is in their country.
They have already shut of an oil pipeline from Iraqi to Sryia.
They are dictating what they want done.
                   Today's headlines!!
U.S. ACCUSATIONS that Syria has chemical weapons and is harboring Iraqi fugitives have escalated sharply in the past week now that the worst of the fighting in Iraq has been declared over.
      Tuesday, a U.S. official told Reuters that former Iraqi spy chief Farouk Hijazi was believed to be in Syria, which would be an especially serious charge. Hijazi was director of external operations for the Iraqi intelligence agency in the mid-1990s, when it allegedly tried to assassinate President Bush's father during a visit to Kuwait.
      Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Army Gen. Tommy Franks, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said U.S. forces had killed a large number of foreign fighters who had come to Iraq to aid President Saddam Hussein, most of them from Syria.
      The U.S. focus on Syria has sparked alarm in the region and words of caution from around the world. Damascus accuses the United States of targeting Syria because of Washingtons close alliance with Israel.

Post War Iraq History & Civil Business Politics

a- The US has repeatedly said Syria must give over all Iraqis in their country. How many times do we have to say it?
b- The pipeline was in violation of existing UN sanctions in the first place.
c- Syria DOES have chemical weapons. Everyon in the Middle East knows that fact.
d- The press themselves reported the presence of Iraqi officials.
e- The foreign fighters from Syria have been amply documented. Some were captured alive and had in their possession ovr $600,000, along with letters and letters of bounty for the killing of US soldiers.
f- Syria has, for over twenty years, been labelled a "rogue state" by the UN, currently sponsors Hamas both officially and with arms.

Now, the stance the US is taking is SUPPOSED to generate alarm in the region. They should be alarmed.

If they are sufficiently alarmed, they may think twice about their state sponsorship of terrorism.

The day is long past, Annie, when we can tolerate this type of "warfare". It is not warfare, it is murder, plain and simple.

All of us throughout the world bear the responsibility for having looked the other way all these years, calling them "freedom fighters".

Freedom Fighters don't walk into shopping malls and blow up women and children. Nor do they publicly execute old men in wheelchairs and throw their bodies over the side of a ship. Nor do they blow up airliners filled with people who have never even heard of their country.

Sooner or later Annie, someone has to stand up and say "stop it". Do you, in your heart of hearts, really sympathize with these murders? What happens when it is one of your friends or one of your children who are blown away for a revolution they never even heard of?

Finally, and I know this sounds awfully harsh, but the fact is that after they blew up the WTC, President Bush said quite plainly that the US was going to hunt down terrorists like dogs and that any government that tried to give them safe haven was going to go down with them.

They killed our people, over 2,000 of them, and we, the people of the US will not sit still for it.

And anybody that doesn't like it can just get in the line to get your butt kicked.

Page 2 Iraq War Post

:spock: I believe the whole matter of any war the US (including the one with Iraq) involves itself with comes down to these points;

1. What governs what the US can have that other countries cannot. For instance why can the US have nuclear facilities but Korea cannot.

2. Why the US asks nations to follow sanctions from the UN, but the US excuses itself from this position when it does not fit their protocol.

3. Why the US enters a country making promises and then fails to keep them after acquiring whatever resources it wanted.

4. Why a US citizen that dies is not the same 'value' as another non-US citizen that dies.

5. Is the US so 'clean' that it can 'judge' other nations. What do we use to decide which nation does not do dirty deals or cause conflict to another country?

For a US citizen these questions can be easily answered by some patriotic statement, but for the person that is living outside the US the questions weigh heavily on their minds and hearts. Maybe there needs to be some formal declaration like... if you are a Communist nation with a dictator you are not to be trusted. If you are a terrorist then any country must not give you a haven to rest or they will be considered equal to the terror crime. Sad to say, although easily said it is the common man who pays the high price.

Also, the statement...

QUOTE

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"   Wise words from Ghandi.

Is very relevant, and matters not if Ghandi or the Pope said it. It rings true. I will even echo it by sharing one from one of our leaders:

QUOTE

"The blessings of the gospel are universal, and so is the formula for peace: keep the commandments of God. War and conflict are the result of wickedness; peace is the product of righteousness." (Chieko N. Okazaki, "World Peace," Ensign, May 1990, 71)

Now do not misunderstand me, I am all for the defense of one's country, I think the US has every right to defend itself, I think the US is confussed that the world wants them not to... what the world questions is the double standard. For instance, I think Israel's reaction  (though irrational at times) to the constant bombings is 'normal', but yet the US if you remembered, tried to stop them from taking military action... I could not understand it, what else were they to do, just let people blow them up in the streets? Now, had that happened in the US... well you know...
[offtopic]Now for a moment of Biblical reflection... like I said in a nother post somewhere, there will come a point where forces from the North will overrun Israel, at this point Israel will find it difficult to stop them. The US I feel will be in its' own battles that will preoccupy them. I think all that is going now is shaping future events. I have my own theories, but all I can say is that if these things were not to be God would have prevented it. Now that may sound strange, but true. For instance, for the disobedience of the Jews the Lord has cursed them to be a nation always 'on the run' always 'surviving by the sword', we can see this is still true. If there were not surrounding enemies in the Middle East who would be their enemy? Will all their enemies be vanquished? No, as I said previously, there will be an invading army in the North... who could that be?[/offtopic]

Iraq War Post

Well isn't this interesting... the chants that is....

From Deseret News:

TALKS REPLACE BATTLES
Under a white-and-gold tent at the biblical birthplace of Abraham, the United
States assembled Iraqi factions Tuesday and told them it has "absolutely no
interest" in ruling Iraq. Some Muslims boycotted the meeting, and thousands
demonstrated nearby, shouting: "No to America and no to Saddam!"
https://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C...36383%2C00.html

Post War Iraq

Now remember, this is from ABC News, not me

From ABC News:

For days now we have heard occasional reports that something has been
discovered in Iraq.  The reports begin promisingly.  A group of suspicious
canisters.  A stockpile of missiles.  A mobile laboratory of sorts.  Each
of these finds raises expectations that perhaps the dreaded weapons of
mass destruction, believed to have been hidden from the view of the U.N.
weapons inspectors, have finally been tracked down.  But while some
testing remains outstanding, none of these early discoveries has turned
out to be the real deal. At least, not yet.

Post War Iraq - Page 2

1- The nuclear question is a terribly sticky point. The history of it is that "we", the major powers of the world, played with a power whose real danger no one realized for a long time. Once the facts of nuclear devastation full emerged, several major powers, the US and USSR notably, had them in abundance, but were locked in the Cold War conflict.
Everyone in the world realized something had to be done, but how to do it? Since then there has been an effort to curb and eventually (somehow) get rid of these weapons. Thus the Nuclear Non-profiferation Treaty.
Then, of course you have your mini-Hitlers popping up all over the world, trying to get them, and it is a nightmare to resolve.

Another consideration when considering the US, is we elect new leaders every few years, who may or may not have any sense. It is one of the down sides of our Republic. We get our share of morons running things up there in Washington, but it is better than having dictators.

2- The US talks to the UN primarily to be nice. We never have accepted the body as anything other than a place to talk things over. All that is our government's efforts to play the political game with them, and give them credence, if possible.

3- What resources have we taken from any country?

4- For the same reason that you would be more affected if your mother died as opposed to some lady half a world away whose name you didn't know. They are our people.

5- The US is by no means "clean", and I have never tried to pretend that we are. We have done many a dirty deal in our history. Along with morons, we have elected outright crooks to high office. I can think of two without batting an eye.

Hmmm,
You want a formal statement of some sort. How about this?
To Whom It May Concern:
Keep your radical political activism confined to countries who are meek enough to put up with it. Mess with America and die.

The US fully supports Israel's retaliation. You probably are referring to Desert Storm. that was a calculated thing based ont the situation of the moment.

[offtopic]Sorry, but I accept no religious dogma from any source, whether Christian, Moslem, Jew or otherwise. That is philosophical speculation and is no substitute for facts.[/offtopic]

The WMD is a non-issue with me.
I suspect they are there and well-hidden. I simply can't imagine Hussein getting rid of them when he didn't have to. He had nothing to gain by destroying them.
Like everything, it will take time.
Like every other aspect of this, everyone is panting to find fault with Bush/the US.

Another curiousity I see lately is everyone is so hot to blame the US for the Looting in Iraq, but no one has thought to look at the Iraqi people themselves.
It is their country, and they are supposedly such a proud nation. So why are they insanely destroying their own heritage and treasures?

Post War Iraq Politics Business Civil & History - Page 2

:spock: *shaking head* ah well, the answers you gave were already 'preordained' or in other words... I knew you would say that.

QUOTE

Everyone in the world realized something had to be done, but how to do it? Since then there has been an effort to curb and eventually (somehow) get rid of these weapons.

Play with fire and you get burned. The race is on to get rid of every 'Hitler' that has them, so why doesn't the US get rid of theirs... again this remains unanswered, who is a 'little-Hitler'. Saddam? Didn't the US create him? Let us be honest folks, most of these wars seem to focus on countries that the US once had doing 'their' dirty work, but once they saw that these nations wanted more powerful weapons then they say, "No you can't have that, we don't trust you". Ever wondered why no one said that to China? India? Pakistan?

QUOTE

The US talks to the UN primarily to be nice.

Instead of answering you only reinforce my point. For the US its we just want to be nice, for everyone else its obey or be bombed.

QUOTE

What resources have we taken from any country?

:spock: Ask those where you have landed.

QUOTE

mother died as opposed to some lady half a world

That would make sense ONLY IF you were NOT in that same nameless woman's home, but since you are there, at least ask the name.

QUOTE

The US is by no means "clean"

This is the only thing with which I agree.

QUOTE

You probably are referring to Desert Storm. that was a calculated thing based ont the situation of the moment.

Nope. More recent than that, I am not sure if I posted on it before, I think I did in the 'Arafat Revolutionary' thread. I may need to revive that.

QUOTE

Another curiousity I see lately is everyone is so hot to blame the US for the Looting in Iraq,

Again, they are not blaiming you for looting, they blame you for not stopping it.

QUOTE

It is their country, and they are supposedly such a proud nation. So why are they insanely destroying their own heritage and treasures?

Well, these are the people your country felt compeled to liberate. Maybe you should ask the US that.

[offtopic]:spock: dogma? You do realize that I am a man of the scriptures and 'man shall live by every word that proceedth forth from the mouth of God'. Now if that is not how your 'god' operates, fine, leave my 'dogma' alone.[/offtopic]