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Mormon Calling And Election Made Sure - Page 6

Wow Amonhi, VERY interesting points. I will ask just two questions for now:

1. What do you mean by some people are promised exaltation from birth? Please expand on this!

2. I must ask this: Have you made your Call and Election Made Sure?

Sure Election Calling Mormon

Unless the following Prophets are incorrect, Baptism and temple ordinances are still needed to enter the Celestial Kingdom regardless if we have received our calling and election made sure

Baptism is required for admission into the celestial kingdom

Russell M. Nelson

Baptism is Essential to enter the Kingdom of God

Howard W. Hunter.

Temple Ordinances are absolutely crucial to enter God's presence..

I believe that one can and should seek to make their calling and election made sure, but this does not mean that the ordinance as commanded by the Lord should be ignored. One cannot enter the Highest Kingdom of the celestial Kingdom without the ordinance of baptism and without a companion(there are numerous quotes on the impossibility of entering this Kingdom singly), regardless of having our calling and election made sure.


I would also be wary if someone claimed that they have received their calling and election made sure. It is my opinion that only two people can know if there C and E were made sure and that would be God and the person receiving it. Otherwise it is unknowable by others (In my opinion).


I have another question. Can someone who leaves the Church (not excommunicated, but voluntarily leaves) , who denys that the Prophet is a Prophet, states that ordinances are unnecessary, and teaches this to others , ever able received their calling and election without making a significant change? I would argue no(due to the statements above), that this cannot be done if they continue down such a path. This is of course my opinion.

Mormon Calling And Election Made Sure Studies Doctrine Mormon

1. What do you mean by some people are promised exaltation from birth? Please expand on this!

This is the true blessing of being born "into the covenant". I understand that it does not make sense from a lower law point of view, but the children born into the covenant have the same promise as the parents. Two sources to read about this come from the current Joseph Smith Manual
Chapter 10: Prayer and Personal Revelation," Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007),125-34

Starting with: "Perhaps you may be surprised at this assertion..."
Most being blind because they could not comprehend such a thing didn't see it.

The second source comes from the bible, Galations 3. If you think about this concept deeply as it relates to Noah and yourself, you will find a hidden secret...

2. I must ask this: Have you made your Call and Election Made Sure?
Yes, but you already knew this and didn't need to ask.

Are you saying that children who die before 8 years are doomed without baptism? Do we baptize for the dead who die before 8? I am not saying it is or is not necessary, just that we should open our minds to possibilities.

Ordinances are not needed in the Church of the First Born. They have already served their purposes.

I am either a liar or deceived, take your pick. ;-) This would be the reason people don't talk with you, specifically you, about such things. I could walk into a ward and talk about the most spiritual things with a complete stranger, only because I believe them and share first.

Boy, you make it hard, that is a tough order. It is hard to say yes because prophets are viewed very differently. We are all prophets in the literal sense. Why would I claim that someone else isn't?

Page 6 Sure Election Calling Mormon

Amonhi:

What makes you think I knew? (I am curious)

I will check on those sources in a while, at the mean time let me ask...How long ago did you receive it and do you mind sharing the general experience on how you went about receiving it without giving details if you don't feel comfortable about it?

Rather off topic, but... Since you joined I thought you had your C&E made sure and that's why I was insisting in you joining the mature board because I wanted to see what you had to say. Also, on purpose I left out this topic from the list of recommended threads I listed in your intro thread to see if you would pick it up.

Sure Election Calling Mormon

Neither, I am just an agnostic when it comes to your point of view. Nothing personal.

These (and all other individuals who do not have the Spiritual capacity for repentance and baptism) are covered by the atonement as discussed in Moroni 8. All others require baptism as clearly stated by ancient and modern prophets.

Just for clarification, is entry into the church of the firstborn found outside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, or is it a higher manifestation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day (analogous to the Aaronic Priesthood being a lesser part of the Melchesidec)?

If we believe numerous Apostles and Prophets found in the LDS Church then ordinance are necessary to enter the Celestial Kingdom, (unless the members of the Church of the Firstborn will not receive entry in to the Celestial Kingdom). Or are all of the Prophets wrong concerning the necessity of baptism and temple ordinance for entry into the Celestial Kingdom(regardless of C and E being made sure)? It seems that they are extremely clear on this point.

Mormon Calling And Election Made Sure

It is most commonly know as telepathy, but is it a form of spiritual insight. Your heart burns with excitement at the realization that you could receive your calling and election too. It is very exciting! I'm excited for you!

What is harder to do is have the guts to test or try the information gained from the spiritual realm. For example, what if you had said, Amonhi, I know nothing of what you are talking about! Then I might have felt like a fool. I have learned to recognize and trust spiritual promptings. ;-) makes for great party tricks! J/K

I don't mind. Challenge me, see where it goes. :-) I get something out of it too which is why I am here.

What of those who have reached a point where Christ cannot suffer for them? Do they still take the sacrament? What good are the ordinances if the atonement is useless to you in that Christ can't suffer for you? What would happen if a child reached that position before the age of 8? What of children raised in the millennium who are "raised without sin unto salvation"? Do they need baptism for the remission of sins? Oh, and mentally handicapped people don't need it either...hmmm.

Interesting question. I can conceive of it, however, the best system for preparing a person that I know of is the church. However, some days I wonder. ;-)

I am sure you want to hear the romantic version, :-) It is very long though, maybe my wife and I could visit with your family sometime for the long version. The short version is about 8 years ago we had a glorious and powerful experience. I would rather not go into the details of our own personal experience at this point, however I am more than happy to discuss the doctrines, how to's, and other such details.

It is very important to understand that I do not know everything and that I teach for doctrines the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, as does anyone else. So test anything I say against the light of the spirit. It is the ONLY sure foundation to build on.

Rather off topic, but... QUOTE Also, on purpose I left out this topic from the list of recommended threads I listed in your intro thread to see if you would pick it up. I was almost disappointed about that. :-)

Edited: Amonhi on 11th Sep, 2008 - 1:30am

I was almost disappointed about that. :-)

Mormon Calling Election Sure - Page 6

I understand about not sharing such personal experience. I am eager to hear the doctrines, the how to's and whatever other details you may want to share. Thanks.

Rather off topic, but... I cannot even comprehend the idea of receiving my C&E made sure. I am absolutely so far from that, incomprehensible. I wish I could separate my own Spirituality from Church, that's what I am trying right now. Source 6 Read ALL pages when you get a chance to see some of the things we experience here.

Mormon Calling Election Sure Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 6

Rather on topic....

You are exactly as far from it as you think you are. Sorry, that's the bad news. The good news is that you can change what you think. (Understand?) I suggest that you allow yourself to realize that you can receive your calling and election made sure so you can feel that burning witness I told you about. I know of a certainty that it is in your reach, and JB's too. (Especially after reading your comments in that link.) Try asking God if it is within your reach right now and see what happens, but you must be open to the possibility and stop judging yourself, that is God's role and if God finds you worthy then don't argue.

Elliaison Wrote an article with everything required to know to receive it. I have know some people who read this particular article and received their promise in less than 2 weeks. The missionary I told you about received it in 1 night, the same day he asked how. He received his answer as to how and applied it and received the promise and the Second Comforter that night. I have also know people who took 3 years to "get it".

I would love to make available the article for download. It comes with permission to reproduce it in it's entirety. Let me know how I can get it to you.