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Your Membership In Jeopardy - Page 3

I would definetly question why, and then after lots of fasting and prayer, make a decision.

Jeopardy Membership Your

I have read this thread with interest since my first message, the responses are so different which shows our understanding and feelings towards how things are handled. Here are some of my thoughts:

Tena

No offense taken, the means of studying the Gospel cannot be greater than the Gospel itself.

Actually the reason for having a temple recommend first shows your worthiness and then secondly allows you to enter the Temple. Howard W. Hunter insisted upon every worthy member to have one, so it should not be assessed as 'less important' for members who do not have a Temple nearby.

BigMac

What do you mean by 'such as us'?

Now, here is my personal view, keep in mind... the question is what will be your reply and action... and I guess it is easier for me to address this because I have sat in so many of these same Councils for discipline. First of all if my Branch President approached me about it I would want to know how he got his information and if he read the statements made - you see the Bishop must have cause. If he felt that something was wrong with my being here then he would propose that action be taken against me on the grounds of teaching false doctrine - there is no action for reading apostate books or even replying to it, but there is for teaching it. It would be up to the Bishop and any others to prove that I am teaching false doctrine here. Now let us say they still think I need to be in a Council, well then I would bring print outs, statements and so on for my case - this is actually normal procedure - after all these are merely men that are also able to make mistakes whereas this is your salvation for which you must vindicate. Now let us say that after the Council they still feel that I am somehow teaching false doctrine, then I will take it to the Area Authorities, then the First Presidency if necessary all of which you have right to according to the CHI and D&C. Think about it, the Lord will not list all these measures unless He knew that some members could be taken advantage of. Now, if the First Presidency said that they uphold the original decision then I will have to concur, but if not I will stand vindicated.

You see in the end it is not so much a question about this forum alone, but your rights as a member. The Lord has set limits for what is considered so bad that you should have your membership in jeopardy. If learning the doctrine with other members around the world is wrong then they will have to show that is against the rules of my membership.

Now, as a side note...

Offtopic but, BigMac you expressed that you saw topics here that seemed as though we were apostate, what specific topics were you talking about? As for others that may actually have fear let me say that we (Administrators of this forum) are strong believers in the Church, but like Skousen we do not merely sit back and take information without asking why? There is nothing wrong with asking why, it is because of fear most members are not more educated in the Gospel - in your next class in Church - I encourage you to ask why - because in asking why you will have a greater conviction to do, because you will know why! Lastly, read the 'Read Me' thread we have here, this has absolute strict guidelines to protect all members here so that no membership is in jeopardy, you see I already thought about all of this and we are actually protected In this board I am no respecter of persons, hence you see many come to try an infiltrate the rules here and they have been quicly silenced, either by force or their leaving after seeing that this is not a place for apostate rants.

Your Membership In Jeopardy Studies Doctrine Mormon

I didn't mean to suggest holding a recommend was less important, but rather that the loss would have less of an immediate impact on your life. If you can't go to the Temple on a regular basis, you are not losing that ability of regular Temple attendance by losing your recommend. I said this because otherwise, I don't know why anyone would dig in their heels on principal and say, I am going to continue going to this site even if you decide to excommunicate me because you are wrong, when the end result would be losing their Temple Recommend. I am not saying I wouldn't fight against what I considered an injustice, but in the final analysis, I wouldn't give up my Temple recommend, because I would miss going to the Temple regularly.

Well, then in the end, we aren't that far off in what we would do. It is simply that I am not sure I would bother taking it all the way to the First Presidency. I have said I would take it to the Stake level. I have the utmost faith that the people on the high council and in the Stake Presidency would take this seriously enough to do a thorough investigation. So, if after that thorough investigation, they still felt I shouldn't be visiting this site, then I would stop coming.

This is not something I had information to judge upon. I got the impression from your original post that the "charge" was just that this is an apostate site and so I shouldn't be here. If they were to "charge" me with teaching false doctrine, I think I would very easily be able to prove I wasn't doing that. If the "charge" is teaching false doctrine, then I don't think I would be told to stop coming to the site, but to stop teaching false doctrine. I think that changes things a bit.

Page 3 Jeopardy Membership Your

Tena

Well the difference (and again this is based on experience) is that I would not give up so fast. Just like a court of law I have seen decisions changed at a higher level (even when not contested by a member) simply because the higher authority felt the decision was not adequate or inadequate. Again the key again, we are all capable of error. The reason I would stop at the First Presidency is that unlike the others I am sure this is the Lord's actual chosen and that their decision would be/should be unbiased, whereas I am not sure (nor am I asked to be) of my Branch President's personal views in the accusation against me. (I have countless stories from actual experience where these men make big mistakes - hence there are guidelines.

Of course, and that was intention... the main idea being how you would reply and the action you would take. Again, this is to show that members have to know that they have rights in their membership and the leaders have guidelines in their administration. We are asked to follow our leaders as far as it is in line with the guidelines of the Church - in other words - just because my Branch President felt that I should adopt a baby, doesn't mean I have to follow his direction - there is a guideline for that.

Jeopardy Membership Your

As for the "such as us" quote, I wanted to edit it, but couldn't at the time and when I was able to get back to it, the time for me to be able to edit it had elapsed. I didn't mean for it to sound like that, but there did seem to be two distinct 'sides' to the discussion and one side (mine) was being accused of blindly following our leaders. That's what I meant by such as us, not that we were elitist or better or something. Sorry if it came across wrong, like I said, I had meant to edit it...

Offtopic but, As an example of a thread that sounds apostate, how about the one that is titled "Defile the Temple"? If a Stake President, High Council Member, Bishop, etc, came in here and didn't read the thread and find out about what the thread was actually about, they might think that thread was apostate. They might think that we were all in here discussing plans to go and defile our local temples especially since there is no subheading describing the topic as there is under other topics. Or one that I really wondered about when I first started checking this place out called the "Devil Never Lies" or "Satan tells the Truth" or something... It was "Lucifer Tells The Truth..." Again, I'm not saying the threads are apostate, but the titles can sometimes make it seem so to someone just browsing, especially when you have seen how apostate websites drag Mormons in, which is oftentimes at first by making the what is false seem as truth.

Message Edited! JB@Trinidad: Use the offtopic tags when the rest of the message is not related to the subject of the thread. Thanks.

Your Membership In Jeopardy

Thanks for clarifying that as it did look as though you were making some sort of seperation (you have 30 minutes to edit your posts). Now, with all that has been said I hope that others who have not replied will still state what they would have done in reply to the original message, I did not want to interject so fast, but the discussion seemed to be going into other areas that the subject did not cater for...

Offtopic but, That is a good point and I think I should make a change to the top banner of the board so everyone can read what we are about. Please visit our feedback section if you have more input.

Your Membership Jeopardy - Page 3

I just wanted to add my 2-cents to this topic......because mythoughts on this are different now than they would have been even a couple of weeks ago. Recently I had the opportunity to go to Martins Cove and do a trek....it was a very wonderful, spritual experience. What does this have to do with this thread? Well while there we were told a story about Ephraim Hanks, he was a man who helped rescue the Martin handcart company (you should read about him, he lead an interesting life), anyway before he was told by Heavenly Father to go help the emmigrants in Martins Cove he had many experiences on obedience. The one that struck me the most was one night he went to a dance in SLC, he had a full long beard that he was quite proud of, as soon as he walked in the door Brigham Young told him to go home and shave....Ephraim didn't want to shave, but he didn't question President Young, he went home and shaved off his flowing beard that he was so proud of, but he left his mustache, well he then went back to the dance and once again President Young told him to go back home and shave once again. Ephraim went home and did as he was told. It was later said that he was asked to do small things to show his obedience to the Lord and because Ephraim so willingly and without question did as he was asked about the small things the Lord was able to communicate to Ephraim in ways that he couldn't to others. Ephraim was able to give blessings and heal people of the handcart company that noone else was able to do. Ephraim performed many miracles because he was obedient and the Lord knew if he was obedient to the small, seemingly unimportant things, than he knew he could be asked to do the really important things and he would follow through.

I probably haven't told the story very well on here, but the answer for me on this question now is, Yes, if my bishop asked me to stay off a certain website then I would do it, because I sustained him as my Bishop and he was called by Heavenly Father to be my bishop. If that is considered "blind Obedience" by some, then thats o.k. because part of the reason we are here is to be tested on obedience and if I can do the small things then I sure when the "big" things are asked of me I will be able to do them also

Your Membership Jeopardy Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 3

Madrer4, that is an interesting response one that I will attach some questions to:

1. On what grounds will you stop, just because you are asked?
2. The way the Church 'asks' us to do things now is very different than in Brigham's time
3. What to you is blind obedience.

Do not try to interpret my questions, I am asking to better understand your point of view. I believe there is such a thing as exact obedience, I admire that you have gained a greater testimony of it, but I have also learnt that we must be sure of exactly what we are obeying less we become as the Jews of old time... following a law and putting to death the Savior.