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The Great Divide

Many on this board have expressed that in the Last Days there will come a great divide within the Church that will cause some members to fall or as the scriptures put it... even the very elect shall fall from grace. This event or chain of events to come will cause members of the Church to look at themselves and wonder, take stock of what they believe, how they believe it and even cause a decision as to if their testimony has been set to the right channel. This thread has been started to discuss ideas and to speculate on how this may happen, since no one knows the exact happenings of the future we should not take anything as literal by members who post here and as usual prayer, the Spirit and the scriptures should so guide towards the Truth.

From this thread I take the quote from Joseph Smith:

"There are three dangers that threaten the church from within, and the authorities need to awaken to the fact that the people should be warned unceasingly against them. As I see them, they are flattery of prominent men in the world, false educational ideas, and sexual impurity."

One can wonder how flattery of prominent men could threaten the Church or even false educational ideas... What are your thoughts?

Divide Great The

If we, or maybe even more importantly, our Church leaders, care more about what these important people think or say about us than we do about what the Lord wants us to do, I believe, the Church will be threatened. This is especially true if our leaders and especially our prophet worries too much about being accepted by important members of the government or soceity. Then instead of being honest and direct about what our differences are, they might try to minimize or hide them. Eventually, everyone forgets the difference exist and we no longer abide by them.

The Great Divide Studies Doctrine Mormon

That is true Tenaheff. What I always look at is who is next in line and the way they like to 'talk the talk'. For instance after Pres. Hinckley next to be Prophet is Monson, he 'looks' healthy and vibrant but seems 'quiet' in his approach to spiritual things (but I am only gauging from the 0.2% I know of him from his talks, etc. Then there is Boyd K. Packer which many say 'already has enemies' because of his 'forward' approach. I like to research the 'pattern' of these Brethren where possible. At present we see that Pres. Hinckley is very focused on expansion, visiting everywhere and families, he handles the gentiles with that tone of 'it's the past, don't worry about it'... will Pres. Monson do the same? Another question to think about. If the US government truly becomes separate from religion and gays are allowed to be married and possibly men are allowed more than one wife, will that mean the Church may once again practise Plural marriage among the living? Maybe what is to come in the future may be so different as to 'spiritually shock' the members in the same way entering the temple for the first time may be a 'surprise'.

Divide Great The

These are very good questions and observations. Although the US is probably going to very soon be accepting of marriage between same sex partners, no one is suggesting that multiple spouses be allowed. However, it seems to me, if it is o.k. to allow same sex, which is contrary to all christian teachings (the basis for our current marriage laws), then it follows that eventually, they will have to also look at allowing polygamy. What will be the argument against? That is is unnatural??

If that happens, I don't know what the Church would do. Probably nothing at first, but at some point someone is going to need to inquire of the Lord (i.e. prophet, and council of the 12) and why would he NOT reinstate this law, if the reason for discontinuing it no longer exists as a threat. That will truly shake up a lot of people within the Church. Many faithful members will have a problem with this, me included. Not saying I would leave over it. I wouldn't, but it would be very difficult for me to live it.

Divide Great The

What will be difficult about it? The fact that they want to bring it back or the actual idea that one man will be married to many women?

The Great Divide

1. Flattery of prominent men. This appears to me, and to many of my acquaintances, to be a prominent trait right now. A few examples:

• It seems that all current General Authorities are "respectable" according to the world. That is, business men, doctors, professors, etc.
• As soon as a man becomes a GA, he is placed on the Board of Directors of various corporations and organizations, etc.
• The Church and the LDS foundation, are involved in extremely high visibility projects, such as helping the Hare Krishnas to build a temple in Utah, starting the PEF, and other, similar projects.
• BYU, BYUI, and BYUH are all overwhelmed with applicants, so much so that less than 40% of applicants are allowed in. Yet, instead of building MORE such institutions for the education of the Saints and our children, we spent money on a new Conference Center, just when more and more people became able to "attend" Conference virtually, through sattelite systems, cable, and the Internet.

2. False educational ideas. BYU has a school of education. Colleges of education foster the false liberal ideas of modern public schools. These include the preeminence of multiculturalism, the cult of "self esteem", and objective-based education.

Colleges of psychology, sociology, and other "social" sciences focus on secular humanist ideas, at the expense of the Gospel. Hard sciences and technology is generally apathetic towards the Gospel.

3. We probably don't need to discuss sexual impurity, although you might be surprised at how rampant it is within the Church.

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Now, for my personal opinions about the split within the church. I have a few different opinions about it.

First, the most likely and visible cause would be plural marriage. We have discussed this to death. The thing is, the Mormon culture is so opposed to it that many people in Utah would prefer a painful death to being commanded to practice it.

What I see as being more likely is the deaths of several, maybe most, of the 1st Presidency and the Twelve.

A third possibility is a modern day Exodus. I believe that Isaiah describes such an event, wherein people who are prepared are invited to participate. Many people who hold to this theory think that it will be a supernatural call, such as angels coming to individuals in the nighttime and calling them on the spot to attend. Another theory has to do with "tent cities" that many people have seen in dreams, wherein anyone who has a year's supply is invited by their bishops, to retreat from the world, with their supplies. In these dreams, all report that only a small percentage of people are willing to give up their temporal security (homes, jobs, cars, etc) and flee to the wilderness.

Now, with my recent readings in the Book of Mormon, led by Blaine Yorgason, in his book, Spiritual Progression in the Last Days, I see that this third possibility may be the most likely. When you look back through scripture, you will see that God has always delivered His righteous remnant by leading them into the wilderness. Consider Abraham led from Ur, Moses leading Israel out of Egypt, Lehi out of Jerusalem, Alma away from King Noah, Joseph Smith out of New York into Kirtland, Jackson County, then Nauvoo, and finally, Brigham Young and the Saints into the West. This seems to be the Lord's main way of teaching us how to trust in him.

Anyway, enough for now.

The Great Divide

Even if the First Presidency were dead, and some of the Apostles, wouldn't the remaining Apostles take control? I would not personally have any problem with that or are you talking about an actual disagreement? In both cases the scriptures outline what is to be done... specifically D&C.

Offtopic but, Yes, we have discuss the plural marriage topic tro death, but there is still a lot unanswered there. I think I will awaken that thread.

The Great Divide Mormon Doctrine Studies

I think what is happening all around us today is causing many to apostasize. It is evident when you visit internet sights like exmormon.org and others. The other night at the Arizona Easter pageant, someone had a big sign that read Josephlied.com. My 15 year old daughter was curious and looked at the sight when she got home. I had to take some time to explain away some of the attacks of this web site.

Information at the click of a mouse is a great tool. You can read the Conference talks, scriptures, and a host of other uplifting messages. But Satan is quite active on the web. Anti mormons are very organized and prepared in their effort to make the church appear to be something it isn't. They are experts at twisting the words of church leaders, quoting talks from the Journal of Discourses but ommitting key phrases to change the entire meaning of what was said. In other words, They Lie in wait to deceive.

Many long time church members who have gone through the motions of church membership without truly being converted come across this material and lose their testimony. In their minds, they were duped all these years by the church. Now they see the truth of the mormons and are getting out. All of a sudden, the one true church is now a mind controlling organization and is only after your money.

The Lord knew this was coming. For some time know, Prophets have been warning us to have family prayer, read and PONDER the scriptures, have FHE etc. Why? Well, with the lies Satan is pushing today, without personal revelation, many will be deceived. Those who have deeply experienced the scriptures and have personally communed with God on a regular basis will not likely lose their testimony. Those who attend church out of force of habit, never open their scriptures, usually forget to do their home teaching etc. will all of a suddden be faced with a decision. They cannot continue being a member in name only. They will have to either commit fully to the Lord, or follow Satan.

Those who are not used to the Spirit in their lives, guiding them on a regular basis will tend to follow Satan. And they won't recognize that they are following him. Their minds, desires, ambitions will be on the things of the world. Sadly, some people in this group may be church leaders, Bishops, High Councilors etc. The position you have attained in the church is not necessarily indictive of your overall spiritual health.

So, I thing right now we are experiencing this divide. but i doubt there will be a great divide where most of the members fall. I thing the majority of active LDS will follow the Saviour.