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Does Depression End At Death? - Page 2

Though it may not be the complete point I believe that the severity of depression will differ from going to paradise rather than prison. Prison I believe depression would be still one of the many things to possibly overcome if it was not biochemical or rather clinical depression. Prison we still suffer from many of our earthly ailments. Paradise would be differ because its almost a differ degree of glory or even healing. All these accounts of NDE's cant be generalized as one guide for there could be many variables that have not been revealed. Christ will heal all of our afflictions but we need to remember that depression could of been the trial that you or I chose for this life because that was what we needed to grow.

Death End Depression Does

limdamb

I agree that depression caused by no fault of our own is an earthly trial not to be endured after death.

Alma 40:12

I also agree with Nate that those who go to spirit prison will suffer depression, but that is the type of depression that accompanies sin caused by the guilt of their own conscience.

Alma 40:13

Does Depression End At Death? Studies Doctrine Mormon

It has been my experience that depression is caused by bad thinking, or poor philosophies. I have seen many people healed completely of depression by changing their perception or by understanding and correcting bad philosophies. I have seen cronic depression end. The body will produce what the spirit tells it to. Such things like endorphins or depressants. As a man thinketh so is he.

So, this being the case, I do not believe depression will leave at death. I would suggest that you consider the general needs of men and determine which ones you lack. Then determine if you really need it and how you will get it.

Hope comes from seeing the end of your misery. If you know how you will get what you want, then you will have hope.

Consider security for example, Do you feel secure now and in your future? If you felt secure what would you feel like?

Page 2 Death End Depression Does

Although I agree with you that there are some instances of this (bad thinking, etc) I definitely believe that with most people that have a severe depression issue--it is an illness not a choice. I believe what we do with it once we have it makes a difference--such as trying to deal with it positively or like we are cursed.

As Nate mentioned, I also believe that those who suffer depression from guilt will be in spirit prison due to the fact that they feel guilty from unrepentant sins. I do NOT feel that those that suffer depression as a trial here will be in prison after they die. I think they will be whole in mind just as a person with cancer would be healed from their trials of flesh.

Death End Depression Does

In my limited experience, I have not come across anyone who has been depressed without a reason. The body creates the drugs that creates depression. 1) A person feels depressed for a cause, something happens or doesn't happen that a person's happiness is dependant upon 2) Depression has lasted long enough that the body has become addicted to the chemicals and the cells would starve and die without the chemicals. This creates a chemical dependency on the body creating depression. 3) The depression gets the person what they want, for example excuses, sympathy and attention. All can be overcome in this life.

Two questions to ask a depressed person would be:
1) Describe your perfect and exciting life, (no financial, health or other limits. They can change relationships, themselves, anything... Some people don't even know what they want. They are more lethargic emotionally than depressed.)
2) If life were like that, would you be happy? If not, then what would you change? (Add the changes to the perfect life above, and ask this question again.)
3) What changes from your current existence to that one in which you become happy?

- Do they say, the only thing I need to be happy is drugs? "No."
- If you asked them if they lived that life which makes them happy, would you be depressed? "No" (It could take time to get over the chemical dependency but it would be fairly quick, as in weeks to a few months.)
- Meditating on that perfect life can even relieve the depression.

Are people really depressed who have everything they want? Depression comes from a lack of hope. The lack of hope comes from a lack of power or ability to have something they have decided their happiness is dependant on having.

The non-depressed person is either happy with life as it is, or working toward the better life. They have hope.

The Sin caused depression also comes from a lack of hope. Hope in salvation. Hope in themselves because they know they will NEVER become the perfect person they think God expects them to be. They have a realistic understanding of the natural man they are and what they are capable of. This person has no hope because they know that perfection as they understand it is beyond their reach. They cannot meet the criteria the feel that God expects of them.

Notice, always a lack of hope. Can't get what they want because it is outside of their "power" to have. Something's are outside our power, like Death of loved ones. In this case, our happiness is dependant on something we can't change, but we can still communicate with them. We can still have relationships with them. Understanding what is causing the depression and how to fix that problem in a way that is acceptable is the solution to depression. Not pills and drugs.

IMO

Does Depression End At Death?

I see you feel very strongly about your opinion which leads me to believe that you have 1) never suffered from clinical depression or chemical depression or 2) you HAVE and were able to overcome it on your own.

I have to still stand my ground (nicely though! *smile*) and say that I totally disagree with some of your points. For instance, #3

I don't think you are talking about a true depressed person here--someone who is acting depressed for sympathy has some other issues.

Again, this may be just a period of depression, more like severe sadness which in time will pass, but I don't believe it is the same as clinical depression that might need medication.

My biggest disagreement would have to be with your questions you would ask a depressed person. First off, no questions at all will ever heal a person from depression--it may help them to evaluate where the problems lie and therefore help the process but in my opinion and experience, words will not heal depression...no matter how positive you are. Again, this is my opinion.

Is this even realistic? I mean you are saying they have no limits on health or finances--when in reality it is their health that is suffering--mental health. Obviously, if they could take that away they wouldn't have the problem anymore.

Again, this doesn't seem realistic to me. IF life were perfect, we wouldn't have to discuss this. But it is not, and cannot be made perfect--therefore, this does not seem possible.

I have the same thoughts on this question as well. As for the drugs, a person with depression doesn't take them to become happy--they take them to balance out and therefore be able to cope with things that come which without them might end in suicide!

They are not choosing to NOT be happy--it is an illness. Granted there are many people who are diagnosed or self-diagnosed with depression that really aren't but for those who are--it is not something everyone can just "get over" and especially in a few weeks or months. I know this from personal experience. I was told it was due to pregnancy hormones and that I would only have to take medication for the post partum time, and that was 15 years ago. I also know if I tried to just "get over" it as other people have suggested before--that I would be dead before that "fairly quick" time came--and that is not an exaggeration.

Unfortunately, often meditating on that "perfect life" that cannot be achieved is what takes a person to an even lower level. Just because a person is depressed does not mean they cannot face reality. Meditating and being balanced, yes, sometimes with medication, is what makes you as whole as you can be and ready to take on life and its challenges.

I don't know ANYONE who has everything they want--spiritually or materially. Do you? Again, I STRONGLY disagree with you as I do not feel all depression comes from a lack of hope. I believe that there are some people that obviously that is their reason but NOT everyone. I do not feel as if I lack hope in my life--I feel I must rely on my Heavenly Father and He will guide me in what needs to be done. I have not lost hope in him or myself--rather I know I must depend on Him to help me through it.

People don't just choose to be depressed (that are really depressed) and to say that it is because they have a lack of power or ability to have something they need for happiness is like saying something is wrong with a diabetic for needing insulin.

I think we will probably just have to agree to disagree but with this last statement I would like to let you know that there are plenty of people that suffer from severe depression everyday and although they may not be happy all the time or hardly ever--I can say that most are trying to work towards a better life and if that includes taking medication or counseling (or both) then why should we make them feel guilty or less worthy? I think that it is something that the couple and Heavenly Father should work out.

Does Depression End Death - Page 2

Yes, I have had multiple levels of personal experience with this. I have seen others who have been diagnosed also be healed. (I must reserve that I have not healed the entire world of depression, so there many be cases I am not familiar with. However, I know that Men are that they might have Joy. Joy in this life, not waiting for the life to come. I also know that because who we are today is the same person when we die, if we have not learned how to have joy here and now, (if we have not mastered our bodies, then our bodies have mastered us), then we will not experience joy after this life.

I agree, that is why so many people cannot be helped in tharapy. When the tharapist gives up, he proscirbes drugs. Exploring the causes of depression will only bring up the reason the person is depressed. The solution is change, Empowerment! Helping the people to find ways to "overcome all things". Not focusing on overcomming the depression, but overcomming the causes of the depression. Giving "hope" of a better life thru self empowerment.

Words will only work if the person is able to convince themselves that what they want is no longer desireable. Changing their perception. This is more difficult because depressed people generally have strong desires for what they want and want things that make sense.

As a man thinketh, so is he. This would be the first thought to go... This self perception creates a damned effect and stops progression. When we say, "I am this or that", we are expressing our lack of power or ability to change. Everything changes. Very few people are born depressed, their body changed. Something caused the change. It can unchange to. The correct way to express it is, "I am experiencing depression. I can experience Joy as well. It began and it can end."

This is exactly the problem. They are "coping with things". Ligitimate problems, not imaginary problems. And they are Not changing them, they are coping with them. That is depressing. That makes me feel depressed. The problem is expecting people to continue a "hopeless" existance. Give them drugs so they don't kill themselves by manufacturing a physical feeling of contentment without any change to the person's phylosophies, perceptions or circumstances. The result is drug dependancy for life, or until something changes.

Also notice that as you pointed out also, they are coping with "things". What "things"? Those "things" they are "coping with" are the cause of the depression. The lack of saratonen and other chemicals naturally created by the body is the symptom not the cause. Drugs are like putting a band-aid on an infection without treating the infection. If you are using drugs while you treat the problem, then there is an end. But often times, a good regimene of vitamin B will do the same thing.

Pregnancy can do some really strange things! I am not saying "get over it". I am saying that if you go back to when you became depressed you will find an internal conflict of some sort. A desire which you felt contradicted "acceptable" reality or "possible" reality. Somehow right now, your life is not what you wanted for yourself. You wanted something else. What would you have changed? (Don't tell us unless you really want to.) Right now, you look at life and say this isn't what I want. Are you happy with life? or are you "Coping with things"? I would bet money that you are coping with things, dis-satisfied with what you are coping with. And worst of all, you feel, and could be right, that you don't have the power to change what you are dis-satisfied with. Health, financial security, love, worthiness, it could be any number of things, but always no happy with things as they are and no hope of changing them to be better.

Prove me wrong. Tell me that you are pleased with everything in your life and wouldn't change anything. Notice even within yourself that being on the drugs, you know that you are unhappy about the circumstances in life. The drugs only keep you from being overwhelmed to the point of suicide. But you are still unhappy with something major that possibly has "ruined your life".

If I am right, then there is hope through change, not words. If I am not, there is no hope, you must remain in and with the life you are living now. And that is more depressing than even drugs can fix.

I find it interesting that you accidentally are ratifying everything I am saying, notice:

Can you see the lack of hope? The lack of power in your words? And when you think about what "cannot be achieved" you become more depressed or taken to a "lower level". This is exactly what I am saying. Lack of hope for a better life causes depression. The thought comes first, then the depression. The drugs can't change the thoughts (perceptions, philosophies) or the reality. They just prevent us from fixing the problem and help us cope in a state of eternal misery.

Yes, I do. My wife and I do. If we didn't and thought it was impossible to get, we would be depressed. And anyone who is not depressed is either working toward it having hope that they can realize a dream or is satisfied with what they have. But they see the possibility and have hope of obtaining it.

Just as your lack of hope is substantiated and confirmed by life, so is their faith and hope given witnesses that they can have, will do, are becoming everything they want.

If there is someone who is depressed from something besides a lack of hope, I haven't met them. This is not your problem either as you have clearly expressed that you have no hope of obtaining your desires. So don't bother defending the unknown person out there whom we have not met. Rather let's heal those whom we have met and do have a solution for, including yourself. Notice lack of hope and power in this statement too:

Did you see: "Is not perfect", "Cannot be perfect", and "not possible". In my reality it is and can be. I have hope.

I do not think this is a guilty thing as in a sin, or less worthy thing as in I am better or more worthy than someone else. I am saying that you are right, life from your point of view is not happy. I am saying that rather than focusing on the symptoms, (the unhappy feelings), focus on the cause of the unhappy feelings. Something is not what you want it to be.

Surprisingly, from my experience, the overwhelming feeling is caused because of only 1 or 2 major things. Not the entire life experience. Just 1 or possibly 2 MAJOR issues. And depressed people generally know what those 1 or 2 things are. You only have to fix 1 or 2 things and the depression goes away. You don't have to fix every little thing.

The promise is that you CAN fix that 1 or 2 things and by doing so, your life will be INCREDIBLY different! Doesn't that feel you with inner light and hope? You can change it and get what you want. You can now say you know at least 1 person who has or gets everything he wants. (When I decide that I want something else, then I work to get it. I grow like this, dreaming of new possibilities and obtaining them.)

Men are that they might have joy in this life! You can too, but not with words or drugs...

Does Depression End Death Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

Will we overcome depression after we die: I do not know I will let you know when I die.

Self perception is not everything with depression. Depression is much more complex then getting a self help book and wanting to change our perception. Depression can be physiological as well. Many people suffer depression because of generic factors. A lack of chemicals in the brain can cause depression even diet can cause depression. The more we are leaning about this disease the more diagnosis you will see, and more people then we realize suffer from this. I think this kind of philosophy on depression can be damaging to those who suffer due to physical reasonings because this assumes that their is a personality deficiency as to why one suffers from depression. It is like saying that someone suffering from cancer can be cured by changing his outlook on life.

Also when you talk about perception, you fail to recognize how issues of power and how it is negotiated between individuals plays a role in it. Our perception is not just a matter of personal choice, but also how others, culture and you negotiate and distribute power.

I know the old cloche in the church men are so that they might have joy." We always assume that this means here and now. But Lehi never qualifies then this joy will come, only that our life conditions are needed to have joy. For some who struggle with depression that joy may be later then sooner. I think that we especially as saints that everything can be over come in this life. I just think that this is not so. perhaps we are not to overcome everything but rather endure and persevere through it. Perhaps depression can be one thing that many just have to endure through. Sometimes there is no reason for depression, it is just there.