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The Mormon Prophet So Enough - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 25th Aug, 2003 - 4:11pm
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Are Mormons meant to follow blindly? We may say no, but if you disagree what do you do? Pray UNTIL you believe? Should we believe that all that is written and said by the Modern Prophets is correct and infallible? If so, then why do we have to pray about it? Is it for us to believe what they say or really to find out if that is what we ought to be doing? Controversial Mormon Issue.
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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?
The Prophet said so, is that enough?
Sometimes the Prophets and leaders of the Church speak to the members about different issues than contradict the scriptures in one point or another. Now, to whom we should follow....the living Prophet or the Scriptures? What do you think?
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Post Date: 22nd Aug, 2003 - 6:08am / Post ID: #
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I think that we should listen to the prophet. For one thing, the prophet isn't going to go against scriptures on the important issues, however some things have changed and for this we have to be willing to listen to continuing revelation... which is what our prophets are for. I can think of a couple of issues as examples.
1. We no long sacrifice animals yet the scriptures are full of examples of animal sacrifices. However, the death and ressurrection of Jesus did away with the need for animal sacrifice.
2. We no long practice plural marriage (and I know this is covered in another topic, just used as an example here). The scriptures are full if instances of plural marriage and even our modern church history has instances of plural marriage. However, we have been commanded to no long practice plural marriage.
3. Dietary laws. We are allowed to eat pork and some of the other foods that the ancient Israelites were forbidden to eat. We have our own dietary guidelines in the D&C which constitutes the Word of Wisdom.
4. The United Order is discussed in the D&C and was once attempted, however we as a church were unable to live under that higher law, so we were no longer required to live it and we now live the lesser law of tithing and offerings.
There are probably other examples where what is written in the scriptures differes from what is currently practiced. However, we are a church that believes in continuing revelations as our own articles of faith state:
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
Our Heavenly Father isn't done revealing everything to us, as is stated in this article of faith. We learn line upon line, precept upon precept. Saying that we don't need continuing revelation from the prophet because we have the scriptures is like when other religions reject the Book of Mormon because they have the Bible and they think that's all they need.
This is why we need to be willing to listen to our prophet and to accept his word. He receives revelations for us and our time and sometimes this revelation may seem to contradict the scriptures, though usually if we look closely we find that it doesn't.... but in some cases as some of those I mentioned about it does. I guess the main thing to remember is that when the prophet speaks and is giving revelation for our time, it is scripture... just as much as our other scriptures are scripture.
The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? Studies Doctrine Mormon
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| He receives revelations for us and our time and sometimes this revelation may seem to contradict the scriptures, though usually if we look closely we find that it doesn't.... but in some cases as some of those I mentioned about it does. |
I agree with most all of your words Melodilynn. I would like to emphasize that what might seem to contradict is actually not a contradiction but a higher law or truth. For instance, the United Order might seem to contradict tithing's ten percent, but it does not, it just fulfills it to the higher law. Same is true for when Christ came, I am sure many of the scribes and pharisees thought Christ was contradicting the law of Moses when in fact He was fullfilling His own laws. The law cannot be higher than the one that gives it, therefore God is just to state when something should and should not be obeyed based on the needs of His children.
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At the beginning of each General Conference, we, as a "church body," sustain our prophet and other priesthood leaders in the church. When we bear our testimonies, we often bear witness that our church is lead by a prophet of God. To "sustain" means to give support to; to support as true, legal, or just; to allow or admit as valid; to confirm.
If we cannot sustain our prophet, or revelation given by our prophet? I would think that calls for serious prayer.
We have not recently been given anything truly controversial in the way of revelation, and so I think our current generation has not really had to contend with big upsets in doctrine. Imagine how confusing, and even frightening, it must have been during the plural marriage times! There were also many who were upset regarding blacks and the priesthood.
What will we deal with next? Are we ready for it?
Roz
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[quote]If we cannot sustain our prophet, or revelation given by our prophet? Â I would think that calls for serious prayer.[/quote]
The greatest point that I have seen on this matter is the admonition, in various places in scripture, to rely on the Spirit, not on the Arm of Flesh.
I don't say, ever, to not follow the prophet. However, I think it is much more important to gain the Gift of the Holy Ghost, then follow the Spirit in all things. My point of view is that if we are truly doing our duty, then we will be prophets unto ourselves, and when we follow the prophet, we will be doing so with our eyes wide open. Ideally, when the prophet reveals anything new, we will already know it, and his revelation of such ideas will consist of permission for us to discuss it with others.
At the same time, such a level of preparedness means that if a prophet or apostle is leading in the wrong direction on a particular item, we are not bound to follow.
The principles of eternity are founded on spiritual independance. We should not bind ourselves, but only be bound by God.
NightHawk
The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?
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| At the same time, such a level of preparedness means that if a prophet or apostle is leading in the wrong direction on a particular item, we are not bound to follow. |
Correct me people if I am wrong please but I remember reading somewhere where the Lord says our Prophets cannot lead us astray and if they try to do so, they will be removed of their position.
The Mormon Prophet So That Enough
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| The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.) |
The problem here is that Brigham Young and John Taylor frequently noted that they were worried that the members were too dependent on them. Brigham Young did not have any confidence that the Lord would completely protect the church from being led astray.
There is no indication in scripture that the Lord will stop the leaders of the Church from leading people astray.
If you accept that Isaiah is specifically speaking about our days (as I do), then it becomes even more problematic. When Isaiah speaks of Ephraim and Israel, he is speaking of the Church. When he speaks of Judah, he is referring to the Jews. With this in mind, Isaiah 28 and 66 become particularly important.
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| 7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. 8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean. Isaiah 28:7-8 |
Wine and strong drink are symbolic of pride. Vomit and filthiness are speaking of regurgitated teachings.
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| 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. Isaiah 66:4 |
Apparently, this indicates that the Church will suffer from delusions.
Finally, we know that in the very last days, the Church will go through a cleansing, as many, possibly most, of the members will apostatize. The cleansing will begin within the Church, then will go out throughout the world. If everyone in the church is "following the Prophet" and the Prophet cannot lead us astray, how could this happen?
I go back to my original statement. If we are doing our duty, if we are spiritually prepared, we cannot be led astray by anyone. If we aren't prepared, if we aren't doing our duty, we will be part of the delusion.
NightHawk
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